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Help with Joints

tnfjield
Enthusiast

Help with Joints

tnfjield
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

I'm having a really hard time transitioning from SolidWorks to Fusion with regard to joints and I'm hoping someone can help set me straight!

 

Per the image below, I have two rectangular components and I want to create a joint or (set of joints) so that the top piece can move freely on the bottom piece while the 3 corners of the top piece are touching the dotted lines.

 

I've watched the videos, read about joints, and I'm still stuck.  Can anyone walk me through how you would accomplish this?

 

tnfjield_0-1634342928405.png

 

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jhackney1972
Consultant
Consultant

The motion you desire is mathematically impossible.  You can have any two corners riding along the imaginary line (actually a fence component turned off) but you cannot have three.  There is only one position where all three corners can be touching the fence but cannot be dynamic between three points.  Model is attached.

 

Next time you post, be sure to include your model to first of all be more relevant to you plus save the time for a Forum user to create the model.

 

John Hackney, Retired
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tnfjield
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Hi @jhackney1972,

 

Thank you for the model.  I understand that the 3 points won't be able to slide all at the same time, but by adding those 3 constraints the model would be fully constrained in a unique position.  If the 3rd constraint were considered over-defining, then it could simply be that the 3rd point was touching the line as opposed to sliding along it.

 

I'm looking at your model and I see that you created a wall.  Is that because it's not possible to add a joint that is equivalent to a component vertex coincident with a sketch line?

 

I'm looking at your first pin slot joint and I see you defined joint origins before it.  The joint origin on the sliding part is on the vertical edge.  Does it matter whether it's on the edge, or could it be an equivalent point from one of the faces?  In other words, does Fusion care HOW the origin was created, or only WHERE it is?

 

I was able to make some progress using 3 pin slot joints in the file attached.  I used the bottom surface of the sliding block and the top surface of the grounded block.  But to my question above, does it matter which surface I pick, as long as I have the right origin?

 

Again, thank you for the model.  I didn't include a model, because my questions are more fundamental, i.e. I don't understand the logic behind these joints.  I understand constraints and degrees of freedom, but I'm not sure what Fusion is doing when I create a joint.  Could you provide any guidance here?

 

Thank you!

 

 

 

 

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davebYYPCU
Consultant
Consultant

I may not be on the same page as John.

 

you can create what you describe 3 corners tied to the three lines, for a variable block, without joints. No idea what restrictions you would need for the fourth corner.

 

In the planar? sketch for the second component, make each corner coincident to the relevant line.

Click drag one of the lines and the block will update.

 

Fusion Joints work with common snap points, the supplied joint disc works as a triad, 

each disc in each component will always join their Z axis in a co linear manner.  Select the common point in each Component, the Dialogue Box allows for offsetting distances in the 3 axis directions and Z rotation.  Variations are Design dependant.

 

Might help.....

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jhackney1972
Consultant
Consultant

 

I'm looking at your model and I see that you created a wall.  Is that because it's not possible to add a joint that is equivalent to a component vertex coincident with a sketch line?

 

Yes, joints cannot be applied to sketches.  As I showed, you can hide the wall component.

 

I'm looking at your first pin slot joint and I see you defined joint origins before it.  The joint origin on the sliding part is on the vertical edge.  Does it matter whether it's on the edge, or could it be an equivalent point from one of the faces?  In other words, does Fusion care HOW the origin was created, or only WHERE it is?

 

In this case the design requirement required the corner contact so the joint must be on the edge.  Fusion 360 joints must be placed and oriented to allow the motion required.  I used a Joint Origin because it can be re-oriented as needed.  Fusion 360 does care how they are placed and oriented.

 

I was able to make some progress using 3 pin slot joints in the file attached.  I used the bottom surface of the sliding block and the top surface of the grounded block.  But to my question above, does it matter which surface I pick, as long as I have the right origin?

 

It is late here, I will look at your model tomorrow.

 

Again, thank you for the model.  I didn't include a model, because my questions are more fundamental, i.e. I don't understand the logic behind these joints.  I understand constraints and degrees of freedom, but I'm not sure what Fusion is doing when I create a joint.  Could you provide any guidance here?

 

Thank you!

 

 

 

 


 

John Hackney, Retired
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tnfjield
Enthusiast
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@davebYYPCU wrote:

you can create what you describe 3 corners tied to the three lines, for a variable block, without joints. No idea what restrictions you would need for the fourth corner.

 

In the planar? sketch for the second component, make each corner coincident to the relevant line.

Click drag one of the lines and the block will update.


Do you mean while creating the component, in a sketch?  In the case I'm working on, I'm trying to place an existing component into another design.  And what you mean by "variable block?"

 


Fusion Joints work with common snap points, the supplied joint disc works as a triad, 

each disc in each component will always join their Z axis in a co linear manner.  Select the common point in each Component, the Dialogue Box allows for offsetting distances in the 3 axis directions and Z rotation.  Variations are Design dependant.


Ohhhh, that helps a lot!  As I was trying to use my lines and edges, sometimes it would rotate my part and I didn't understand why.  I didn't realize it was a triad, and I didn't realize it was trying to align the Z axis.  Now I understand what was going on!

 

Thank you!  

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davebYYPCU
Consultant
Consultant

Inserted component, then not relevant.

variable block, doable with 3 points and lines coincident, so within limits you can change the block footprint, and not relevant.

 

 

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jhackney1972
Consultant
Consultant

From your model Three Joints, you seem to have the location of the bar using joints all figured out.  In your original post, you had an offset from the sides so that is why I used the extra component inside the base block to attach my Joints to.  In other posts you seem to shift from the need to use Joints, in the location of the bar, to sketch constraints so I am not sure where your needs really are.  I have included another Screencast, showing the use of Contact Sets and Joint locking, using my original attached model, to place the bar in the exact location were it touches the third point.  It is just for information as you explore Joints further.

 

 

John Hackney, Retired
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tnfjield
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@jhackney1972

I think "all figured out" is a bit of a stretch!  I trial-and-errored my way to a working solution.  lol.  And yes, I removed the offset from my model because you made me realize Fusion was not capable of doing what I wanted to do without inserting extra components.  If I can do it with just the two pieces, then I can add a third to create my offset just like you did.  Regarding sketch constraints, I didn't actually shift.  @davebYYPCU just didn't realize that my "bar" was an inserted component, and not created in-place.

 

And thank you for your video on contact sets and joint locking.  That may be useful and I'll have to play with it.  Without having tried it, I would be a bit hesitant to rely on it for exact positioning.  With other CAD programs the contact point is determined by sampling positions, and that sampling is a function of rate of movement, processor speed, etc. where the result may not be an exact solution.  I'll have to dig into it.

 

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