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Help with eye mechanism design

Catherine__P
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Message 1 of 32

Help with eye mechanism design

Catherine__P
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I am working on a very simple eye mechanism which so far involves 2 servos and one eyeball. One servo moves the eyeball up and down and the other moves it left and right. So far both servos work ok independently although there is some jitter in the other servo when the eye moves past the central position (for some reason moving the eye in one axis seems to cause movement in the other axis too and I don't understand why). When I try to use both servos together (for example to make the eye look up AND to the right) however, the first servo that I move is forced back to its central resting position. Therefore I can only get the eye to look EITHER left / right OR up down but not both. I have used a central grounded ball joint to keep the centre of eyeball in a fixed position. I think this design should work ok, but I'm not a mechanical designer so I may be missing something obvious. Any help much appreciated!

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Message 2 of 32

jhackney1972
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A Motion Study will be the only possibility and I pretty sure it will be unsuccessful also.  Fusion 360 has a hard time running to joints simultaneously especially when the motions are sharing a lot of common joints.  I believe the joint causing the issue is your ball joint of the eye. Logically it makes sense the way you have it but Fusion 360 is being asked to animate this joint in two or more directions at the same time.

John Hackney, Retired
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Message 3 of 32

Catherine__P
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Thanks so much, that's good to know. I was worried it was my design that doesn't make sense, but if it's just Fusion 360 having trouble animating it then that is reassuring

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Message 4 of 32

davebYYPCU
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He said, A Motion Study will be the only possibility and I pretty sure it will be unsuccessful also, 

Nah, all things equal will work with click drag.

 

@Catherine__P Come back there's some good news, 

 

Your assembly will work when you fix the misalignments, so often it's misalignment that breaks joints.

I didn't get far into the review before the most important joint, was showing anomalies.  This Ball joint does not line up with the actuating components.

 

bjwwltDB.PNG

 

Actually it's present in the first 2 ball joints I checked, and I suspect all of them, now.

The joint aligns to the small (male) sphere, and it's female socket, but does not align with socket pushrods.

 

bjwwlt1DB.PNG

 

When you get those sorted, you will need a Ball Joint on this end, too, because the other end is coincident to a sphere, this pushrod can't swing in this horizontal direction in the picture.

 

bjwwlt2DB.PNG

 

and would be locking the file right there.

 

Might help.....

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Message 5 of 32

Catherine__P
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Wow thanks so much, this is really helpful.

 

Just to clarify, does the centre of the hole for the pushrod (image 2 in previous reply) need to align with the centre of the small male sphere for this to work? I realised when I was modelling it that it wouldn't (since the socket part covers only part of the ball, and so I aligned the pushrod hole more with the centre of the female socket part to avoid extending the pushrod socket beyond the ball socket bit), and assumed it wouldn't matter. When I try animating the ball joint on its own, it moves about OK like this, so I figured it was alright (model attached), but maybe this is causing problems when it's part of a bigger mechanism?

 

The other question I have is, regarding the comment at the end about the pushrod connectors being exchanged for ball joints - does the pushrod need to be able to move horizontally? My intuition was that both pushrods would only need to move forwards and backwards if I allow the bolts connecting the ball joints to the eyeball to rotate (to allow for the movement of the other servo, if that makes sense!)

 

Many thanks again, still trying to understand the basics here!

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Message 6 of 32

davebYYPCU
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I’ll go back a bit, for the ball joint at the centre of the eyeball, 

If the eyeball Origin is Jointed to the small ball fitting, (expected) all will work nicely, it does not matter where the other hardware goes.  Us humans like to align things neatly to save the hard work.

The centre of the Eye is not directly jointed to the small fitting ball centre (unexpected)

 

this small misalignment, shown in my first 2 picture, top and side view of the same Joint, is not strictly causing the problem, but creates a far more complicated model.

 

The analogy, you want the ball and socket concentric.  Means every thing is anchored to the centre ball joint.  Now very exaggerated, your Model is more like a hand holding a torch, the movement is centred at the wrist, and not the lightbulb.  Now wave the torch around.

 

The wobble I mention comes from the holes in the eyeball, aligned to the holding rods, and not the ball joint rotating fulcrum. Not the end of the world, until the second servo gets implemented.  As soon as you connect it, it must move in sync with the eye and it’s first linkage.

 

Say you push the side pushrod forward, the top pushrod starts to go left and forward in sync, can not stand still - you are seeing this movement, and thinking it should not move, but it has to.  The pushrod you are now moving is going forward and left.

 

The pushrod fitting on both servo arms must be ball Joints and the second servo must freewheel, to prevent this unexpected movement.

 

In Fusion, you click drag the eyeball, and all others will freewheel.

 

I have noticed Slider Joints at the holes in the eyeball, but not investigated those, or the new file yet.  Not sure how much time I have today.

 

Might help.....

 

 

 

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Message 7 of 32

Catherine__P
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Thanks very much for this detailed reply, I think it is starting to make more sense to me. The torch analogy is really helpful, thank you!! I think I've managed to recreate a new ball joint with everything in alignment now (attached). I'll have a go at converting the pushrod connectors to ball joints now...

 

Don't worry about looking into the slider joints (unless you want to!). I think I used those just to help me assemble the pieces together, and should change them to something else now!

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Message 8 of 32

Catherine__P
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By the way (and absolutely no worries if you are done with looking at this model by now!), I have got another problem that I can't figure out now. I have been adding in an eyelid, and got it working quite well yesterday, but now I have done something to it and can't figure out what, so that it isn't working anymore. Luckily I still have both versions (attached). I don't understand what the difference is. Any help much appreciated in figuring it out! Many thanks! 

 

Note (everything is hidden apart from the eyelid and controlling servo) - in the working mech file you can rotate the servo horn and the lid moves, and in the other one you can't)

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Message 9 of 32

davebYYPCU
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Ok, reviewed both files, as I am coming in cold, the first is obvious, but is it relevant?

 

Not working got tilted, in what looks like 2 directions, the servo horn no longer looks like it is horizontal (blue Line) aligns close one end and the other not so close, but that can be 3d illusion.

 

bjwwlt3DB.PNG

 

However, Not working does work with click drag on the eyelid.  It gets jerky, and you are right moving, the arm does not work.  Now it comes down to how far you want the eyelid to move.  The pushrod is longer than the distance between the lower pivots.  So as the angles change it will get to a point where they will bind, over top dead centre, will be fine, the lower the pushrod is taken, the more binding, will happen.

 

bjwwlt4DB.PNG

 

My rule of thumb, set the eyelid at halfway travel, set the servo arm at halfway travel, and test until it binds up.  Ideally the 2 lever arms are parallel in this position, the pushrod length and pivot spacing don't have to match but would help if they do.  At halfway the push rod 90 deg to the arm/s

 

Might help.....

 

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Message 10 of 32

Catherine__P
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Thanks very much for all this, I will play around with this later. I am having all sorts of nightmares with alignment in this model. I am struggling to get the eyeball back in its original position. Do you know if it is possible to align a component's origin back to the origin of the whole design file? I think that is what I need to do, but when I try, it says it's not possible.

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Message 11 of 32

davebYYPCU
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Normally / preferably done with Joints, and failing that Move or Align.

 

First option, I have noticed a lot of Capture Positions, as well.  Delete these from the right hand end walking left, until you get the orientation back.

 

Might help.....

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Message 12 of 32

Catherine__P
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Thanks for this advice. I went and removed the capture positions. Now I have exchanged the rod connectors for ball joints to the servos and updated all the ball joints to the corrected design. It is working quite nicely now, no jitters like before. The only weird thing is that the L/R servo works perfectly but the U/D one doesn't move at all (even though I can manually move the eyeball up and down and the servo horn follows suit). Do you know why? I don't know if this kind of problem is due to the order in which I create the joints perhaps? ie either the order that I click the components when making the joint, or the order of the joints in relation to each other? 

 

I also noticed that I am getting in some trouble with the double ball joints (ie having them on both ends of the connecting rods) when I rotate the eye both in the U/D AND the L/R axis, then the balls go off centre and I can't easily get them back to their rest positions (even when I try to set the angles by typing them in on the joints they don't seem to go back to 0,0,0 (or whatever the correct position is) easily). Do you know why? Is there any way I can avoid having 2 ball joints here? 

 

Many thanks!

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Message 13 of 32

Catherine__P
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I have tried to get the eyelid working but it keeps stalling. I can only manage to control the movement by dragging the eyelid itself, which drives the servo horn. If I try to rotate the  servo horn direct it won't budge. Then even when I rotate the eyelid, it gets stuck and locked. I know I am doing something very wrong in the design. I have experimented with many different things (where on the servo horn to attach the connecting rod, where the is placed (pivot in line with or below the pivot on the eyelid), length of connecting rod, servo horn angle at different starting positions etc etc) but every time it jams for some reason. If anyone has any tips about how to design these servo linkeages that would be soooo wonderful as I am very lost with this!

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Message 14 of 32

davebYYPCU
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Got the file, 

 

First delete all Contact sets, they cause trouble, like you describe.

Gone....

 

ebbjs2.PNG

 

I have also circled the Capture and Revert icons, clicking on Revert, will reset all previous unsaved moves.

 

Quick check, Click Drag the eyelid, all works as expected.  Click Drag the eyeball, it too, is working as expected, after trial moves Click Revert. (White Icon.)

 

Next there are some yellow warning icons, best to fix those when they happen, simple as Undo.

Ask questions if you don't know how to avoid them.

 

Might help....

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Message 15 of 32

davebYYPCU
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Accepted solution

Good news - bad news, 

 

The eyelid mechanism, is misaligned, here...

 

ebbjs3.PNG

 

The bad news is that the servo, and pushrod, was built off the bad bit.  

When fixed should come right.

 

ebbjs4.PNG

 

The correct alignment belongs to the round disc face, and the vertical rectangle face is not parallel.  Means that the eyelid will drive and work with the click drag. 

 

0.001 degree makes a difference, click drag is Ok, but driving the servo it is not.

The relevant sketch was not in it's component, so when it sorted, making the black line vertical, (delete the Perpendicular constraint to the hoop), it will all rebuild and click drag can now turn the servo arm.  Drive the servo arm, only goes in one direction travel limit will fix this.

 

Might help...

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Message 16 of 32

Catherine__P
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Ahhhhhhh thank you so much! That is why! I couldn't see it, now I will know to check the angles between components. I meant to make the rectangular part a part of the eyelid component from the start but I accidentally did it as a separate one and then combined later. I will make that bit again. Also wondering if it might work better to have the rectangular bit taller, with the bolt hole higher, to give more leverage? Maybe it doesn't matter...

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Message 17 of 32

Catherine__P
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thanks so much for these tips, good to know how to do this!

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Message 18 of 32

davebYYPCU
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Accepted solution

Leverage, on a 40 mm eyeball, and those small parts, you have more than enough power in the servos.  I was going to mention that the levers you have made are too long, in the scheme of things.  Servos work well with near full travel (90 - 120 degrees) so short levers at the servo and long levers on the parts, are normal.

 

Might help....

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Message 19 of 32

Catherine__P
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OK cool thanks this is good to know. So it would be better to attach the connecting rod to the hole on the servo horn closest to the pivot point on the servo? By the way, here is my current model. I deleted the old upper eyelid and made a new one from scratch with the correct alignment and it is now rotating like a dream. Thank you for your help on this!

 

The eyeball movement is also working ok with the servos (I haven't updated the design yet to how you suggested with the ball joints attached differently), however you can see that because of the double ball joints, it easily starts swerving off to the sides once both servos are used simulateously. Then it's tricky to get it back on track so that it moves, for example, only left / right using the right servo. I think this is due to the double ball joints. I wonder, is there another method I could use instead to avoid this?

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Message 20 of 32

Catherine__P
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One other small problem I am struggling with. You will see in the model attached above that the eyelid servo is lying at a kind of odd angle. I would like it to be in the same orientation as the servo controlling up/down movement in the eyeball, but can't make it happen. Any tips on alignment of the orientation of one component to another? I know I am not quite looking for exact alignment since none of the faces will be in exactly the same position, just parallel...

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