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Ground to Parent after moving resets position

info7JY2S
Advocate

Ground to Parent after moving resets position

info7JY2S
Advocate
Advocate

Maybe I misunderstand the new "Ground to Parent" function. But I was expecting some sort of a "toggleable rigid group" which you can switch on and off per component. Clearly it doesn't work quite that way. For example:

 

I make a parent component with two child components. Both "grounded to parent". Then I "unground 1 child component from parent". Move the child to a new position en try to "ground to parent" again. This sadly undo's the moving action. Comes with the following message:

 

"component has been moved. Ground to parent will override the move and component may revert to its initial insert or in-place position"

 

So basically: Once you start making changes, the function "ground to parent" becomes useless? Am I missing something here?

 

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akash.nawghare
Autodesk
Autodesk

Hello,

Whenever any component is moved from its initial position & user tries to GTP that Component then this message will gets highlighted "component has been moved. Ground to parent will override the move and component may revert to its initial insert or in-place position" & user will get informed that the component is Moved (Not it in initial location) & is in Capture Position State.
Ground To Parent defines an inherent fixed relationship (similar to a rigid joint) between parent and child components.

When you ground a child component to its parent:

  • The child component moves back to its initial position when it was created or inserted into the design.
  • The components move together.

    I hope this info will help you. Please let us know if you have any other queries.


    Regards,
    Akash




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info7JY2S
Advocate
Advocate

  • The child component moves back to its initial position when it was created or inserted into the design.

I noticed... Why is that? I mean, I moved the part with a reason and want it to stay there after GTP-ing it again. 

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TrippyLighting
Consultant
Consultant

@info7JY2S wrote:

... I moved the part with a reason and want it to stay there after GTP-ing it again. 


Use a joint for that.


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akash.nawghare
Autodesk
Autodesk

Hello,

If you want to keep that component in that location then use Pin instead of GTP.

The Ground To Parent tool lets you define an inherent rigid relationship between a child component and its parent component so they move together in Fusion.

Use this tool when you want the child and parent components to move together in an assembly.

Regards,
Akash

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TrippyLighting
Consultant
Consultant

@akash.nawghare wrote:

Hello,

If you want to keep that component in that location then use Pin instead of GTP.

The Ground To Parent tool lets you define an inherent rigid relationship between a child component and its parent component so they move together in Fusion.

Use this tool when you want the child and parent components to move together in an assembly.

Regards,
Akash


No, don't use PIN, use a joint.

PIN is the "old" ground with all the disadvantages.

If you move a component, you'll have to capture the position of that component before you can use Pin. Then, Pin is local to the design file only.


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@TrippyLighting wrote:

@info7JY2S wrote:

... I moved the part with a reason and want it to stay there after GTP-ing it again. 


Use a joint for that.


 

That is indeed functionally correct.

 

However, it requires extra work (defining a joint) and it does not answer the OP's question, which is rather "What is the rationale that 'ground to parent' would revert the child component to its original position?".

 

I don't see the rationale either, and even less so when working in direct mode (i.e. without model history). When editing without history, the notion of 'initial position' does not make sense. Yet you still get the same dialog window requesting to 'revert or capture the position'. And worse: in some cases you don't get the 'capture' option, and you can only 'revert position'. In those cases 'ground to parent' is useless and even a waste of time (as you have to click cancel and then define a joint or a rigid group instead).

 

 

While the 'ground to parent' functionality is clearly 'better than what existed before', I feel it still not realizes the ideal work flow.

 

I think the functionality people are typically expecting/requiring is:

  • Create a new component (or insert an existing component),
  • Select an initial position for that component (or simply acknowledge the default position),
  • The component is 'fixed' by default, i.e. you cannot drag it,
  • However, you can still use the move command to position it wrt other parts, after which it is 'fixed' again on its new position,
  • And if you rather want to allow motion of that component wrt another (in one or more degrees of freedom), then you define a joint between those components, which overrules the 'fixed' state.

 

The benefits would be:

  • One clear interface: either something is fixed, or it has a well-defined kinematic chain defined by joints,
  • One consistent interface: no more need for pin / rigid group / ground to parent / etc., which are semantically identical to fixed joints. The sole reason that they exist is to avoid work, which above proposal avoids anyway.
  • No longer possible to forget to define the 'ground to parent' and then accidentally drag a component without noticing (this is an issue when direct modeling, as there is no history, and hence no request to 'capture the position').
  • Less work, as it is no longer needed to define the 'ground to parent' for each new or inserted component (unless you actually want it to move, in which case you have to define a joint anyway).

 

 

I don't see any real drawbacks. Maybe that it can sometimes be easy to drag away a component temporarily and then revert its position. But there are alternatives for that. And also: this only works for unconstrained components anyway. Imo. it is bad practice to have unconstrained components in an assembly (certainly in direct modeling mode).

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@johan.rutgeerts wrote:

  • ... no more need for pin / rigid group / ground to parent / etc., which are semantically identical to fixed joints.

...


Ground-to-parent is an attribute applied to component upon creation, regardless when in your model you apply it.

It is not a feature, which makes it computationally much faster than a joint or pin (formerly ground) feature.

 

I think some of the functionality, for example the ability to move a component after the initial movement, is still in development.

 


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@TrippyLighting wrote:

It is not a feature, which makes it computationally much faster than a joint or pin (formerly ground) feature.

 

I think it is the responsability of the developers (and foremost their management!) to come up with a solution which is both optimal wrt. user requirements and ease-of-use, as well as wrt. computational efficiency. There is no technical contradiction between those.

 

Moreover: this is still only relevant in the context of history-based modeling. There are no features when direct modeling.

 

Anyway, it is just a rant...

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@johan.rutgeerts wrote:

Anyway, it is just a rant...


Agreed!

 


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ReeceWeb
Community Visitor
Community Visitor

I was just bit by this when creating subassemblies to be inserted into a larger model.  After all the work was done, I wanted to move everything in the subassembly relative to the origin to make it insert more naturally.

 

I could not move the components in the design because of this issue, and apparently you can't move the origin either.  So I just accepted the suboptimal default insert position and have to remember to offset it Y-3" each time I use it, as it wasn't worth starting over.

 

I thought the point of "capture position" was to make a new position permanent.

I find it baffling that Ground ever moves anything - it should ground things exactly where they are.

I now know to think hard about where I want the origin relative to final features before I start modeling.

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