Fusion 360 Installation is absolutely unbearable and ridiculous

[julianJTABZ]

The crappy installation of Fusion 360 has been discussed over and over again.

And still people constantly searching for their Fusion installation.

Please move Fusion 360 to a properly installed application that resides in the applications folder as every other software does as well.

Simply follow the rules and guidelines, these are made so that users and future developers don't get confused and know how to use something, no matter what developer it came from.

I'm a software developer myself and as such I tell you: There is no need to hide the application package somewhere in the system files.

This is unproductive and absolutely ridiculous.

If you need help, send one of your developers to this comment section, I don't care how, but I want that this is a properly usable software for me and for everyone.

It can't be the case that updating software removes it from the dock.

I don't want to hear tips and hacky solutions or terminal commands.

This is not developer-software but meant to be used by people in a productive way.

I have NEVER seen a software on mac that installs and resides like this. EVER.

It makes no sense and should be changed immediately.

[Stuart-H]

Presume you are on a Mac , re applications folder

this has been explained many times before

its apples fault not fusion , it’s to due with the security of installing software from another place except the Apple store 

hence it cannot reside in the folder you think it should 

if you need to find it because it’s lost just right click/two finger tap and select show folder 

have fun it won’t work any better in the apps folder though 

[julianJTABZ]

Yes, this has been explained many times.

Please re-read my post. I said exactly that.

It has been tried to argue for that solution for a long time and as I stated, this is not necessary.

No. This is not apples fault.

As I explained, I'm a developer myself and if someone needs help with this, I'm here.

I know how to do exactly what you stated would be impossible due to Apples restrictions.

And as I said, this is the ONLY application I know that does it like this.

How exactly does Eagle do the same thing?

And even if it would be the case. What stops you from implementing an application that loads specific code sections, that MUST be in the Library (for some, never explained reason), from a bundle, as Cocoa application do since many many years?

There are so many possible solutions for this problem that it is laughable which "solution" was used.

I'm sorry if you don't get it, but as long as the explanation is "Apples fault, it's to do with their security of installing software" (which is complete nonsense by the way) and no other application shares this issue and I know several ways to do these things, this is not a satisfying answer.

Either explain, WHAT EXACTLY is the issue or find a solution that is workable for everyday blokes.

Simply stating it's Apples fault (even if I'd grant that) does not mean you don't need a solution for this obvious usability-faux-pas.

[TrippyLighting]

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@julianJTABZ wrote:

How exactly does Eagle do the same thing?

It doesn't!

It doesn't use a streaming installer.

It has to completely download before installation.

[julianJTABZ]

Well... Then you see that a "streaming installer" is not the right thing.

Saying "Deal with it" is NEVER a god way to face customer issues.

And this is an issue that is so blatantly obvious that it hurts to see that rolled out.

Now to the technical side.

Please elaborate and explain to me, what the technical difference between a "Streaming installer" and a regular one is? Aren't there possibilities to load updated binary content?

Could there be a way to install a "real" application and load updatable code from binary bundles which would properly be installed in the library?

Could you have a launcher app that simply spawns a new process which encloses the "streamed" part?

As you can see, there so many options to choose from. And I just came up with them because I did exactly these things myself within a few minutes.

I'm absolutely certain that a bit of research and intensive work could solve the issue.

At least you could come up with a better solution than "Simply deal with the inconvenience and dig in the system files after every update, nobody forced you to use Fusion".

No matter the background, you can't seriously think this would be a good solution to problem solving in software development.

And I'm sorry for sounding salty (I really am) but this kind of dealing with issues really grinds my gears. It reminds me of politics. 

[TrippyLighting]

Let me first generally respond to the title of the thread you have created.

I've worked with Fusion 360 for 6 years (30 with CAD, 3D modeling and computer graphics incl. some programming).

It might be a little annoying that Fusion 360 installs differently than other applications and in fact it is really the only other application I have come across that does this as well.

But then it is the only real CAD software that runs on Mac OS and I find this "issue" to be a non-issue and forgivable. In fact after working with it for 6 years it really does not matter to me at all.

As such I would recommend you simply work past this issue and don't blow this totally out of proportion. 

As it pertains to interfacing with customers, I have no gripe with the Fusion 360 team. There are certain issues where that are not budging for a number of reasons (this is one of them) , but in general they are attentive to their customers to the point of being jumpy and overreactive. 

Also, I know a number of the members of the Fusion 360 team personally from meetings at Autodesk and I can say that without exception I have met intelligent, well educated, people that are very passionate about the product they are delivering. 

As you have probably figured out by now I am not an Autodesk Employee, but a customer just like you 😉

[julianJTABZ]

Thanks for the considerate response!

I totally agree with you except the one point being made over and over again: Just deal with it.

I'd never think anyone of these people is stupid. Fusion is a great piece software and other than my posts may suggest, I'm happy that it is there and even for free for some people!

The loop they "recently" closed with Eagle is great!

But this is a big inconvenience for many people. I do know my way around the System library, so this is not a big issue to solve for me. But it's even less of a problem for the dev-folks.

And as you see on the internet, it's an annoyance many people stumble across and again, a simple launcher would solve the issue in a day or so.

This is what I don't understand and that is what lets me write such feedback.

Too simple to solve for them and an issue for too many people to be ignored.

My goal with software is always that the customer shouldn't need to open Google to find a solution. And that includes placing things (such as buttons, icons, text, etc.) in the same place as everybody else. Many people want to have their often used software in the dock. Not possible with Fusion.

Sorry again for sounding salty, but I somehow expect that other devs strive for similar goals.

I do understand that they may or may not care. But I do and in a productive environment any hurtle should be mitigated.

So I raised my concern. They may read it and think about it or not.

Feedback for the sake of letting them know 🙂

[julianJTABZ]

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@Stuart-H wrote:

it’s to due with the security of installing software from another place except the Apple store 

hence it cannot reside in the folder you think it should 

---

This is simply wrong.

Any Software from any vendor can and should install to the Applications folder.

As for Fusion, the discussion above has enough alternatives.

[TrippyLighting]

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@julianJTABZ wrote:

But this is a big inconvenience for many people.

---

I've been on this forum for the last 6 years. I come here almost every day and have provided 1500+ solutions and made 13000 posts. I also am frequently lurking around on the Fusion 360 facebook group, just to see what folks are doing and occasionally to offer help and advice or simply participate in a discussion.

Your statements don't match my experience. Only occasionally this gets under someones skin but it dies down rather quickly.

I have mentioned before that I have used CAD in professional engineering environments for about 3 decades now. over 20 of them in 3D CAD. In "real" productive environment this is NOT an issue at all. Engineers that work on CAD stations start CAD software once daily or restart it when it crashes. 

I work on a Macbook Pro and develop manufacturing automation concepts. I start Fusion 360 once a day, maybe if I don't forget to shut it down. Sometimes I run it for 2 days without shutting it down.

Both on my MacBook Pro and on my 9 year old iMac I can start Fusion 360 form the Doc. Its always been there. If it isn't on your machine, then then something went wrong with your installation and we need to get that checked out.

The only time this is annoying is in cases where you simply want to start an application through Spotlight, which I do with about every other application that isn't in the doc. It would indeed nice if that would work, and maybe there's a workaround for that, but frankly it doesn't bother me that much.

We have a chance to tell the Fusion 360 team what we want them to work on. There are tools that I use many times a day , much much more often then I ever start Fusion 360. I'd much rather have them work on improving those tools.

Just let me make clear that I am not dismissing your concerns. I do share your opinion that this is an area with room for improvement. But I would ask you to hold on until you have more experience with Fusion 360. I am 100% convinced that you will agree with me that there are "bigger fish to fry".

I am glad to hear that you like Fusion 360. It's come a long way! 

[julianJTABZ]

I don't get why everyone argues agains a change here. I get your argument, it's not a huge issue, why bother.

Let's turn it around: it's such a simple thing to solve, why bother not to?

See, that's just not an argument.

Nevertheless, I get that professionals seemingly don't care wasting time with computers... I would've guessed differently. On the other hand there are not many Mac users in this field, so probably they are all used to that kind of software carnage and total system inconsistency.

And as for spotlight (which I also use for just about everything) this is just another example of how this undermines how the system is supposed to be used. The system expects software to be place in the user accessible space. It's that simple.

Imagine explaining to an MS Office customer they from now on need to windows-r cmd and execute five dos commands before they can edit a letter...

Ok well then. Could you explain how you got Fusion in your Dock?

After digging the Library I can drag the current version to the Dock. The next time I open it installs an update and the Dock icon doesn't work anymore.

There is an Alias provided, which cannot be placed in the dock because it is a file and not an app bundle.

I really don't think I'm missing something here, but please prove me wrong here...

[TrippyLighting]

@James.Youmatz I believe that you've helped previously with problems related to "stuff" not showing up in the doc on macOS. Could you chime in ?

[julianJTABZ]

Why do I need t do everything myself?

do shell script "open ~/Library/Application\\ Support/Autodesk/webdeploy/production/Autodesk\\ Fusion\\ 360.app"

Open the Script Editor, paste the code, click File → Export, File Format as "Application" and save it to your Applications Directory. Then Right click → Show Package Contents, navigate to Contents → Resources and replace the "applet.icns" with the Fusion icon.

There is your launcher.

Obviously I didn't spend more than 2 minutes on this, so it's not a perfect solution (a pretty crappy one, tbh).

But still it is a few hundred times better than what is given to the customers.

[James.Youmatz · Accepted solution]

Hi @julianJTABZ  and @TrippyLighting ,

I'm not a dev - or really even an experienced Mac user - but I can chime in on some changes. This post talks a bit about why the alias broke in our September update. To date - the dock icon SHOULD NOT break per update. I've had Fusion installed on my Mac for 3ish years, and September was the only time it broke. It broke because the Fusion.app had been moved to the Users application folder (as Fusion on both OS's install per user, not globally to the computer). I'm not here to argue why vs why install it elsewhere - but today it can be found in /Users/username/Applications. This was done to allow Fusion to be opened via Spotlight. From this app, you can create an alias and move it to the dock.

Thanks,

[julianJTABZ]

PERFECT, James!

Thanks. It seems I complained about an issue that arose again because it got fixed.

Wow. Exactly what I was expecting and hoping for.

Of cause, the users Application directory isn't that common (actually F360 is the first I encountered there), but I totally understand (from a devs perspective) why they don't install into the main App directory, as long as it is installed on a per-user basis. That's a basic permission thing.

But it is provided by the system for exactly this reason and thus also supported in Spotlight, etc.

It now being available as an app bundle in the same directory after an update makes it possible to move to the Dock.

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@James.Youmatz wrote:

From this app, you can create an alias and move it to the dock.

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No, don't create an Alias from there!!

Aliases cannot be placed in the dock, unlike app bundles. Simply drag the app from the Application directory to the Dock.

Thanks again!

[markaudacity]

We're now a quarter of the way through 2020, and updates still break the Dock icon because of Autodesk's ridiculous insistence on moving everything to a new folder per software version. I should not have to keep the installer around and re-add the app to the dock every time it updates—which I only find out about because Fusion loses its mind and can't load UI elements or forgets how a mouse works, because some of its guts have been moved to the new build folder while it's running. This persists through sometimes a couple relaunches, after which point the app can no longer be launched—because the application file the Dock shortcut points to has been eviscerated and the app is now in a different folder with a meaningless twenty-character hexadecimal name. (But which one, of the many it leaves behind every time it updates? WHO KNOWS.)

No other macOS app does this. There's no reason for it. Apple's security does not prevent installing apps in /Applications unless you have it set to disallow apps from outside the App Store, which is an option in System Preferences that should be one of the first things a user changes.
Adobe can do it.
Google can do it.

Hell, Microsoft can do it.

If Autodesk can't figure out how to install a macOS application correctly, it's because they either have inept developers or clueless project managers, and neither is acceptable.

Fix it. You've had at least two years and you've done nothing.

[markaudacity]

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@Stuart-H wrote:

its apples fault not fusion , it’s to due with the security of installing software from another place except the Apple store 

hence it cannot reside in the folder you think it should 

---

This isn't true, and has never been true. Adobe, Microsoft, Google, Arturia, etc etc—all of them have figured out how to make apps work right without downloading them through the App Store. 
Even if that were so, you can disable that limitation in System Preferences. I have dozens of apps that aren't signed by Apple that I installed just like nearly every macOS app for the past two decades: by dragging it to /Applications.

It is absolutely Autodesk's fault.

[adamdport]

@julianJTABZ  thank you for standing on the front lines against this. I only recently started 3D modeling and just started with Fusion 360 a few months ago. Almost every time I open it (I don't use it often, maybe once every couple weeks), I have to wait minutes for the OS to "verify" the install, presumably because it autoupdated without asking me. 

I totally don't mind waiting once after I install something myself, but when it automatically reinstalls itself behind the scenes without asking permission or giving me any way to do it on my own schedule is just obnoxious and as you say, totally unprecedented on this OS. What I've resorted to doing is just leaving the app open and never closing it. If I've got a thing I wanna draw up quickly, I don't need to go "let it warm up" first.

My baseless speculation is that this entire model of installing is for anti-piracy purposes–harder to pirate if half the app runs from the cloud? I can't think of another reason to justify this level of inconvenience for their users.

At any rate, just wanted to say thanks for raising hell, please keep it up, and be the voice of the noobs like me who are stuck with this being their introductory experience with autodesk products.

[trent3ANSU]

I know this is an old thread, but cannot agree more with the title. Completely unbearable installation method that creates more problems than good. 

[tobyWKFWD]

After attempting to install Fusion on a Mac and having it fail, I found this thread.

I cannot agree more that this installer is a mess. It won't even install on Macos 14.5 due to security restrictions.

Meanwhile JetBrains makes complex apps with extra installable parts, and yet it installs simply and cleanly. There's no excuse for Autodesk.

[jeremy_kemp]

I downloaded the Mac installer, saw what an awful mess it is, and Googled "Autodesk fusion Mac terrible installer" which landed me here. As a 25-year veteran of Apple system administration, I'll add my voice, as if it will do any good. There is no other vendor that does this, and the fact that Autodesk still do just shows they don't care about user experience. I'm deleting the installer and moving on; I'm not going to waste my time on awful software written by product managers who don't care how to do things right.