F360 crashes whenever try to update derived components in file

[maker9876]

The following file needs updating:

https://myhub.autodesk360.com/ue29a4968/shares/public/SH919a0QTf3c32634dcfb15b506b35d69d3e

Whenever I attempt to do so, F360 crashes. The components that require updating have been inserted by "derive" and their insertion is the very first step in the timeline. Have been trying to fix this for a number of days. Any suggestions much appreciated.

(The file from which the derive comes is the following:

https://a360.co/2IcSWNf

)

[Phil.E]

Hi,

Thanks for sending in all your CER reports. I have a couple questions to narrow this down.

In a previous build, earlier this month, you crashed several times in a row while updating component. But lately, I see only one crash in each of the last two releases. Your comments indicate you are crashing more often perhaps. Are you sending in each CER report?

Is it the same design from earlier in February? Or is this happening with many designs?

I have uploaded and updated the assembly with no problem. What sort of edit should I try on the derive source to perhaps trigger this? (Assuming it's possible to get into the same state again.)

If I can repeat the crash there is a good chance we can fix it. Right now this crash is not repeatable on our end.

Thanks,

[maker9876]

Hi, thanks for coming back on this. The crash seems to be provoked by trying to update designs that incorporate components derived from the file "original profile - hinged shell". Here we are concentrated on the file "doored linear module". Yes, after a certain point I stopped submitting crash reports because there seemed no point. Then, of course, I only sporadically attempted the update, to see if by some miracle something had changed (and trying to put off  completely rebuilding the file as long as possible!). It's definitely worth getting to the bottom of this problem because, after having to rebuild something complex from scratch a couple of times, one could become wary of using the tool to make anything complex.

Following from the fact that the component update worked for you, thought it might therefore be an issue Local to my machine. Tried clearing the Cache. Problem continued (and submitted another crash report).

Updating other components and/or in other files works fine.

It also works fine if I go back to an earlier version of "original profile - hinged shell", predating the crash problem. 

Later on today may pick up the courage to perform a Clean Uninstall (based on your experience that it should work).

[maker9876]

Well that's tedious: the clean uninstall tool won't run (OSX Catalina).

Instead of the security message for an unidentified developer it's a flat, won't run message and there's no way around it in the security preference panel.

[maker9876]

Discovered there was a  "Remove Autodesk Fusion360" tool in the applications folder so used that. Don't know if that replaces the "F360 Cleaner" tool (in which case that webpage needs updating).

In any case after re-installation attempted to update the component and F360 crashed. 😞

Report submitted.

[Phil.E]

@maker9876 Where did I suggest a clean uninstall for this problem? Please let me know where you might have seen that because I would want to correct it. Many reinstalls I read about on the forum are completely unnecessary and I'm trying to correct this trend, one post at a time.

Reinstall only solves one problem: Fusion won't open. Any crash that originates with data, i.e. a design, is never solved by reinstall.

I'll try again on Monday when I'm back in the office, thanks for giving some clarifying steps. It sounds like you found a workaround - using an older version of the design might be your best course of action. 

Regarding CERs that are repeatable: Please send in every single report. If you are too busy to comment, just hit send. Here's why. 

I rely on automated systems to notify me when a crash is collecting reports. No reports means no attention and no fixing the crash. In fact, the more repeatable the crash is, the more important it is to send in the report. That tells me you are blocked and also that the case is repeatable. Repeatable crashes are fixable crashes. So more reports means we find and fix the cause of the crash faster.

Each time we fix a crash, we try to ensure the crash doesn't happen again by adding tests. Thanks for your help on this.

[maker9876]

Sorry for the confusion @Phil.E , it was the fact that you'd managed to update the assembly file from the source that made me think that perhaps the problem with not the files but local to my machine. The only two tricks I know are to clear the cache and to perform a clean install. 

[knifacat]

Hi folks,

It was suggested I post here as I'm experiencing a similar problem. 

See my original thread here. 

To summarise:

• I had an empty part that I used to share parameters between several parts. (link to part)
• This worked for a couple of days, but having made some changes to the parameters, suddenly trying to Get Latest for any parts downstream would crash Fusion 360.
• Trying to Insert Derive this into any new parts causes Fusion 360 to crash instantly.
• It's still possible to open the file and make changes happily --- just using Insert Derive causes problems.

Since I was only a little ways through the project, I ended up just recreating the parameters in a new part and feeding it all back through. No issues since though I do live in constant fear that it'll happen again.

It sounds like maybe we're experiencing similar problems?

[Phil.E]

I'll try using your design, just noticed that's link to it and not another post.

I would like to repeat the crash using your data and steps. Will let you know if I have questions.

[Phil.E]

Good news: I can reproduce the crash using the current Fusion 360 production build. I cannot reproduce the crash in builds that are for future release. It may be fixed, I'm asking for confirmation of that fact. 

This means that at this time I cannot promise a fix for this will be in a future update, however it appears that is possible.

[knifacat]

Thanks! Glad to know it's not just my machine. Promising. 🙂 

[maker9876]

@Phil.E  Attempted updating derived components AFTER performing March 10th software upgrade. Crashed all the same. Bug report submitted.

[HughesTooling]

@maker9876  I downloaded your file from the first post and made a modification to the hinged shell design and the derive updated OK for me as well.

Have you tried downloading the fz3 file from your share link then upload to a new project and see if that works? All designs will be a v1 so you'll lose version history but at least you can carry on.

Only thought for finding the error with your current design would be to invite @Phil.E  to your project so he can open direct from your project rather than downloading a copy.

Mark

[maker9876]

Hi @HughesTooling  thanks for the input. I see you suggest downloading files to  a new project. Guess if it works for you it should work for me. Only trouble is that the resultant file needs then to be inserted in a greater assembly (in a future-updateable fashion), which guess won't work if it's in a different project. That does make me think of one thing that would be super useful: to be able to select the FILE (as well as just the version) from which an entity is updated. Apart from perhaps helping in this debugging, this would enable one to work with different VARIANTS of components within a project and switch between them. Exactly the kind of thing one wants to do whilst prototyping.

Happy to invite @Phil.E to the project (if interested) but think that requires an e-mail or something.

[HughesTooling]

The only reason I said to import to a new project is because you can have 2 designs with the same name in the same project or folder. For testing it's just easier to upload to a new different project to keep it separate and easy to delete after experimenting. 

By the way, if you're using a team hub you can link designs from different projects. 

Mark

[Phil.E]

You can invite me using phil dot eichmiller at autodesk dot com. Just remind me what design to open and update.

Looking at the call stack in the report:

• It shows 3D sketch is involved.
• This is an old problem and has nothing to do with the latest release. 
• It is highly data specific. Do you use 3D sketches?

You could try opening the derive source design and using compute all. I'm trying to mimic what may happen during translation, as demonstrated by the downloaded designs with no problems found. This is just a guess, and I only offer it to get past the issue if at all possible.

Thanks,

[maker9876]

Thanks for input Phil.. On that basis:

1) tried tidying timeline in source a couple of times => still crashed;

2) restarting F360 was invited to join F360 Team.... finally did this, moving the project in question to Team environment.

3) then started saving source at different stages of timeline, starting from left in the hopes of localising a problem area and thence the 3d sketch in question (there should be none, though there were a couple; and it's possible to create a 3d sketch in error by not being planar when click) => no crashes at all on updating, even when get to far right of timeline!

In other words now updating fine. 

What to conclude? Either the stepwise saving of several version starting from left of source timeline unblocked something. OR it was the upgrade to Fusion Team that "cleaned out the system" (did have the impression that when loaded the projected in the browser after the migration all icons etc had to reload from scratch and this took some time).

Anyway in consequence still haven't invited you to the project, though you're welcome any time if of interest.

Thanks again.

ps since I/we don't know how to read crash reports it would be cool if F360 offered some user understandable feedback at the time of crash to aid self-debugging.

[maker9876]

Just had another file that needed to be updated from the problematic source file and experienced further crashes.

So it wasn't the upgrade to Fusion Team that fixed something.

Saved the source with only a part of its timeline. Then updated successfully. Then saved the source with a full timeline. Updated successfully too. Seems as though there was something that needed flushing out?

[Phil.E]

Thanks for the details. At this point it's in the hands of the developers and QA who look after these features.

The rest of the update:

• We have a reproducible case now and can work on it.
• Only two customers have found this crash.
• Try to keep using the workaround of moving the timeline marker through the design. Let me know if that works in all cases.

[Anonymous]

Hello,

I am experiencing a consistent crash when I insert a derived part in my design.  I've attached a screenshot of the crash.  I think this is the appropriate thread to post this.

Has there been any indication a fix has been made, or that a problem does exist?

Thank you for your time.

Best Regards,

Dave Blandino