Coordinates orientation when creating sketch from a plane

[Anonymous]

This may be simple but I did not find a solution despite searching:

How to create a sketch from a construction plane (or any other surface) so that the coordinate system of the new sketch is aligned (rotated) with the plane?

I tried to illustrate this in the screenshot, I made a sketch from the construction plane and although the sketch is on the plane as expected, the ZY coordinates are not aligned along the plane (I added the arrows to describe how I'd expect the sketch plane to be created). The construction plane was created by "plane at angle" from a construction line, however I have not seen any difference regardless how the plane was defined.

Any insight would be appreciated.

[davebYYPCU]

Sketch planes have no geometry or coordinate system, Sketches do. 

Hide the plane and is there a problem?

[Anonymous]

Not sure what you mean by sketch plane... I am talking about the created sketch and its orientation, which is not the same as the construction plane orientation. As in, the up/right direction and grid lines for example are not parallel with the plane edges.

[Anonymous]

A little more testing: it seems this is a problem when the construction plane is parallel to the origin planes of the component (new construction plane is 90 degrees rotated). If I rotate the created construction plane 90.1 degrees, the coordinate system is created as expected. Seems like a small bug maybe?

[davebYYPCU]

Still not sure of your problem.

Origin and Constructed Planes, have no size or coordinate system, because they are stretched to infinity in both directions.  

Constructed Planes can be orientated, to the position you wish, dependant on the type of construction.  

The orange panel is a truncated region is purely a visual sight Guide.

Sketches must be tagged to a Plane, when done the plane has no further part to play for that sketch, for most of us it is hidden automatically.

Sketches have coordinates, and when created usually but not in all cases, have the projected Document Origin visible.  Again if you can’t see the Plane’s orange shading, (a graphics article) turn it off with the Eyeball, is there a problem.

If you rotate a component, it’s Coordinates system will rotate with it, and no longer align with the Document Origin.  Expected behaviour.

Rotating anything 90.1 degrees is not expected behaviour.

Disclaimer:  I have no use for a sketch grid, (clutter) don’t know how they work.

Might help...

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the reply, sorry I'm not able describe the issue better... I'll try to elaborate.

The construction planes do seem to have an orientation although I understand what you mean by them being infinite. They do have some internal up/left/front vectors etc since the coordinate space of a created sketch will always be the same as the construction plane's orientation. Except in the problem case, that is.

The reason I would want to have the sketch plane oriented according to the construction plane is that I can use sketch constraints like horizontal/vertical in the correct orientation. Grid only displays the orientation and is useful in sketching but otherwise has no significance, it's more about the constraints.

The issue can be reproduced as follows:

1. Create a sketch from an origin plane (e.g xy plane) -> draw a line which is tilted on the plane -> use that line to create a new "plane at angle"

2a. Use an angle of 90 deg, i.e the new plane will be parallel to the origin xy plane you started with, but rotated on the z axis since the line was tilted -> now make a new sketch using the new plane, and the coordinate system is the same as on the origin plane, not rotated to the new plane's z-rotation.

2b. Do as in 2a, but use "plane at angle" anything other than 90 (or 180), say 85 degrees, and the created sketch orientation is now rotated also to the new plane's z-rotation angle.

These are the scenarios I made the screenshots of, first was 2a and second picture was 2b. Not sure if the explanation is still yet understandable, but it seems like a bug to me that would be useful to fix.

[TrippyLighting]

I't would probably help if you share the model along with a screencast that shows the workflow.

This sounds like a bug to me as well.

Construction planed of course DO have a coordinate system/origin and that is usually based on the object they were created with/on.

[TrippyLighting]

@Anonymous no screencast or .f3d file needed. This is easy enough to replicate based on your description and IMHO is a bug.

@ryan.bales @jeff_strater can you look at this please ?

[Anonymous]

Thanks for checking this out.

The same issue presents itself regardless of the way the "rotated" construction plane was created, i.e. from 3 points, axes etc. So I suppose it's about the new plane being parallel to one of the origin planes. 

[Anonymous]

Hi

Dunno if it relates but it seems like I'm running in the same issue. 

The image 1 below shows the top view from a coffee table feet.

The 4 table feet are tilted towards the midpoint of the table at a 24° angle.

Image 1

Now imagine you're looking down on a coffee table and you can see through the table top. On the image 2 below, you can see how I am now trying to draw a mortise rectangle on the feet top, that would go into the table top. If I draw a sketch as such, the rectangle representing the mortise would automatically draw itself as in rectangle "1". Obviously, I'd want the rectangle to draw itself as in rectangle "2", which I now did by drawing some random lines and assigning some constraints afterwards. 

Image 2

Any advise on how I could proceed in order to have the mortise rectangle be drawn at the 24° angle right away? 

Thanks in advance for your help! 

Best, 

Thomas

[davebYYPCU]

Use a 3 point rectangle, when dragging the 2nd point, make the approximate angle, then make point 3, 

Dimension the "required" angle.

Two steps, the easiest way, in a new sketch.

Might help....

[Anonymous]

Hadn't thought of that, thanks a lot!!

Indeed, I can now draw a rectangle at the desired angle. 

But still as a general, would it be possible to draw a sketch that would be correctly oriented relativec to the table feet? 

i.e. a sketch tilted at a 24° angle relative to the project origin?

Many thanks!

[davebYYPCU]

Plane on a Path, select a near vertical edge, and the plane will be square to it.

Might help....

[Anonymous]

Thanks for your support! It makes a construction plane with the correct orientation, so does the "plane at at angle" function.

But when I click on "create sketch" it acts regardless of the construction plane and draws a rectangle at the wrong angle :

Is there a way to create a sketch relative to the construction plane's origin?

I'm a newbie, I realize this may be a very dumb question.

Thanks again for your support! 

[davebYYPCU]

Careful, Planes don't own any geometry.  Hide the plane, and Create Sketch by the Browser entry selection, you wont see any geometry other than a sketch origin.

You can hold down the Control Key, to avoid automatic constraints, 

Sketch > Project needed geometry into the sketch early - then build off it.

but if you are thinking that the sketch orientation should swing with the plane boundaries, I don't think Fusion works that way.

Might help....

[Anonymous]

Ok, thanks for taking the time to respond. 

So just for confirmation : in my setup it is not possible to draw a 2 point rectangle that would automatically allign draw itself at the 24°angle I would need? 

Thanks again 

[davebYYPCU]

Automatically, no. 

That is because of the 2 point rectangle is bringing in horizontal vertical constrains to size the rubber banding to the second point, that's why a 3 pointer is able to do as it does - the horizontal verticals are replaced by parallel and perpendicular. 

Might help...

[nnmachine_marshall]

I ran into the same issue you had. Autodesk should make a real fix for this but it looks like there is a work around. If you create a construction plane at an angle that is not perpendicular to the origin HVD axis then the sketch grid is aligned properly like you mentioned (not 90 degrees). 

Instructions:

Create plane at angle>rotate to any angle that is not perpendicular to any origin xy, xz, or yz plane>create sketch on that plane and click finish sketch but do not create geometry yet>edit construction plane so that it is at correct angle>edit sketch.

Not ideal but I haven't found a better answer yet. 

https://autode.sk/2UZ6EwR