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Colinear, Perpendicular, Parallel Constraints 'Flipping' 180 Degrees to Alternate (Undesirable) Solution

Anonymous

Colinear, Perpendicular, Parallel Constraints 'Flipping' 180 Degrees to Alternate (Undesirable) Solution

Anonymous
Not applicable

Sometimes when I specify colinear, perpendicular, or parallel constraints, sketch geometry constrained in this way will 'flip' 180 degrees to the alternate colinear, perpendicular, or parallel solution from what is desired for the part geometry.  It seems like a bug because it should be pretty clear from inference which orientation is the desired mathematical solution.  Is there some setting to deal with this, or is there a reliable workaround to make sure geometry can find a stable, singular solution without using some complex scaffolding and sketch dimensions (constraints only)?  I don't understand why this behavior would be desirable, Autodesk, so please fix!  I've never had these issues with SolidWorks or Unigraphics.  I understand those are more 'premium' CAD packages, but having stable sketch geometry is pretty basic functionality.

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jhackney1972
Consultant
Consultant

Please record a Screencast showing the behavior you are talking about.  There may be something causing it that others may see.  

John Hackney, Retired
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Anonymous
Not applicable

Link to screencast included below showing unstable/non-singular solution.

 

https://screencast.autodesk.com/Embed/Timeline/f399d877-1f55-4310-a2e1-d0d4d7b38dcd

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jhackney1972
Consultant
Consultant

I see what you are concerned about but I do feel that something is lacking within your sketch that allows this behavior.  If you would please attach this model so the Forum users can look into your sketch.  If you do not know how to attach your Fusion 360 model follow these easy steps. Open the model in Fusion 360, select the File menu, then Export and save as a F3D or F3Z file to your hard drive. Then use the Attachments section of a forum post to attach it.

John Hackney, Retired
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jeff_strater
Community Manager
Community Manager

a couple of comments here:

  1. do you have any dimensions in your sketch that have negative values?  Flipping like this happens when you use negative values (we block those in the dimension UI, but there are loopholes that let them happen).  Try to avoid negative values in sketch dimensions
  2. While "it should be pretty clear from inference which orientation is the desired mathematical solution", that is easier for a human to perceive than it is to implement computationally.  All the solver guarantees is that the constraints are met.  Though I cannot tell from the video what constraints are actually in your sketch, my guess is that this does represent a valid solution to the geometric constraints, and as @jhackney1972 said, you will need other constraints or dimensions to disambiguate your intended valid solution from all the other valid solutions.

And, as @jhackney1972 said - it will be easier to diagnose with the actual design than from a video


Jeff Strater
Engineering Director
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Anonymous
Not applicable

Hi Jeff,

 

Thanks for your response.  Based on what you've said, it sounds like the solver has some limitations.  The model in question is also kind of a mess right now, so I'll possibly see if I can replicate the issue in a model that would be easier for someone else to dig into and upload that.  I still have trouble seeing why negative numbers would present a problem for a solver or why there wouldn't be an implicit secondary constraint to preserve a sketch entity's orientation unless the entity is explicitly manipulated, but I'll admit that's not my area of expertise (I did make it through vector calculus, though, so I know a bit about this subject).  I'm pretty sure I never used negative numbers in any of my sketches, but I did use them in some features (on which sketches are defined), so perhaps this is the issue given what you're telling me about how the solver works.

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