Why Are Fusion Dimensions 10X greater on imported .STL files?

[lorne01]

I tried out Fusion 360 this evening.  I found it odd that every .stl i imported had the dimensions wrong.  I verified with Sketchup, and sketch up has the dimensions right.  I have figured out that the dimensions are out by a factor of 10.  

Is there some setting or something that needs to be changed to get the proper dimensions?  

The picture attached is of a ruler that is verified in Sketchup to be 10mm (length of the green line, but in Fusion it is 97MM.  Does this mean all my prints will be 10X bigger than they should be and i will have to mentally adjust for the error?  

I would appreciate if you have any insight.  

[steven2BAQB]

That is true.  I think the issue arises when I export using 'Print 3D' and the units were changed, but the application gave me no guidance whatsoever as to what came in, and what is going out.  Unless I use the import mesh option...

[Anonymous]

Just for the record, I was more-or-less satisfied with the answers I received soon after I asked the questions. I only ever respond to this thread when I'm included for some reason and somebody says something that I have an opinion on... which is apparently today 🙂 😉 😉

So that said....

Upload Dialog Box

I don't often have occasion to insert / import .stl files. Most of what I do with Fusion 360 is either original or else I'm uploading a fusion 360 part that I've obtained from somewhere-- so I tend to work with Fusion 360 parts. So that's where my thought process is when I approach this operation, and I go to the 'upload' file section, since that's what I have, a file to upload and that's what I need / want to do. Nothing on that page gives me any hint or suggestion about using 'insert mesh' instead. It's only after I've wasted time uploading the file, discovering the size problem, fiddling around in Fusion 360 a bit until I'm frustrated and go to seek answers on Google that I run into the folks telling me I should have used 'Insert Mesh' instead...

Not the most intuitive (or fun) operation, IMO-- on top of whatever it was I was trying to do in the first place that I didn't get to do because I was dinking around in all the wrong places to solve the problem.

*RANT MODE ON - Everybody get out their grains of salt... 😉

Please don't take this as me being angry-- I'm not, there are no visual / verbal cues in written text.

I think that is probably my number one complaint with Fusion 360, I really don't have any intuitive grasp of any of this stuff and there's not really a "manual" of any kind (that I'm aware of) where I can go read to get any sort of innate sense for 'how it's supposed to be done'. So all I have is trial-and-error, fumbling around, and then finally in frustration I go looking on Google or YouTube for some sort of hint / tip / answer / suggestion. Or if those fail and I'm completely stymied, I post a "Help" question on the support board. And in 100% complete fairness, tend to get rapid assistance from knowledgeable folks-- no complaints there in any way, shape or form. The people who know this stuff are fantastic and I am vastly appreciative for all of their assistance so far and any assistance they may offer me in the future... I wish I had a better sense of how to get around in this program and I'd be glad to get out there and help other folks too.

I really don't have anything negative to say about Fusion 360 apart from that. I wish it was easier to find answers or at least a hint to how to solve my problem when I'm having it.  It's really only this one thing that takes me from being a happy user / learner of the product to an extremely frustrated and upset person.

Because, from my perspective, there is the thing in my head that I was wanting to do-- versus the mystery hunt of how to get it accomplished. And the many times-- far more than I care to count-- I go down a dozen rabbit holes trying to find answers until I either simply give up and walk away because of the time I've trying to figure it out, or else have become too frustrated to deal with it further-- and then whatever it was I wanted to get done, I don't get done-- or else I solve it some other way that doesn't include Fusion 360.

*RANT MODE (mostly) OFF

One other thing, which isn't particularly a complaint, but I guess it will sort of sound like one-- is that people (all the smart, savvy, Fusion 360-using folks) tend to put out their answers out in video or screen-capture form which takes time to view to. Many times I have to sit through a number of videos only to discover that none of them really have the answer I need. 

So it isn't about "PASSION" particularly as much as it is that I'm just a regular person who likes making things and wants very much to learn how to use Fusion 360 and I don't personally find some parts of it to be very intuitive at all.

 I think there may be two (or more) types of people who use Fusion 360-- the people who "think" the one certain way that you need to be able to simply glide through it and have it work the way you want. Versus the people like me who come at it from a different perspective and it so often feels like the software is "getting in my way" rather than helping me to achieve whatever it is that I want to do. And I freely offer up that the problem may be me-- either I don't have the right / same "intuitive sense", background / experience, time using the product-- or I may simply be an idiot...  Your choice 😉

[Phil.E]

@Anonymous I hear you, and thanks for your time to post your thoughts.

I don't however see any mention of Fusion Help.

In all that dinking around, I'd like to know why/how the Help menu in Fusion fails. It would be great to see posts that say "I tried to use the internal help/learning/command manual and could not find the answer", because we could then directly work on these paths of Fusion enlightenment to improve them.

For instance: on this very subject, entering Mesh Units into Help gets you this result:

Look at the first suggestion:

Also, if you filter for Product Documentation, the very first of 21 product documentation links is Insert Mesh. I think the answers to this particular question are at everyone's fingertips, right inside Fusion. It starts with asking for Help.

For background: I am a teacher at night. I would be a terrible teacher if I did not show the students how to find information about Fusion and Inventor on their own. Likewise, if I let them fumble for hours without telling them "psst. try Help/youtube/google" I would also be terrible. I teach them to fish, as it were. 

How can I, in 40 hours of student contact possibly relay all of the information found in the Fusion documentation, or youtube channel, or forum? Each of these resources is replete with information, and present vastly different styles of learning to match each student style of learning. I encourage each to find their happy place. I'm encouraging you here to take advantage of the many resources and find the one you like. If you have questions about accessing these resources, please let me know.

Regards,

[steven2BAQB]

When you open a file with 'no units', and the application assigns default units, with no indication that this is happening, coupled with the fact that the default units are arbitrary and have no relationship to the default document units of the newly related project, the end-user is going to be inconvenienced to say the least.

THIS IS JUST PLAIN SLOPPY, and whether or not there are videos or other online resources that clarify details relating to 'import mesh', this is not the point or a solution to what led to the problem, IMO being a vagueness in the user interface.

[Phil.E]

Yes, of course, this is well understood. I think it's been laid out pretty well in this thread. Fusion needs to include the idea of units in all interactions with unitless data.

I'm not saying the presence of easy to search help topics is the reason we won't fix this. Merely pointing out that "hours" wasted are actually hours wasted when tons of real information is instantly available for most commands in Fusion. I don't want new community members to find posts like this and think there is no information available, that's simply not true.

[Anonymous]

I will respond to the rest of your message in a moment when I finish reading it-- but wanted to respond to this part right off... This is sort of a stream of consciousness thing that might help you understand an alternate thought process and why your suggestion is fine and good, but only in your context...

You keep saying it's easy to find "Insert Mesh", "Mesh Units", etc. But I'd like to point out that you ONLY find those things after you've done the OTHER thing(s) that don't work. From my workflow example-- I have acquired an .STL file from somewhere that I want to be able to use with Fusion 360. Since I have it as a file on *my* computer my natural thought is that I need to *upload* it somewhere-- so I go looking for an 'upload' thingy and sure enough, there it is, on the parts library folder, right where I would expect it-- where I *intuitively* expect it to be. But, if I use that method, it doesn't work the way I expect it to, and there's nothing on THAT page (dialog) to give me any hint to the situation, or a reminder that the units on the uploaded part might be different from what I'm expecting, etc. So when it happens, I'm like "HUH? How did *that* happen???" and I start looking to see if its something I did wrong when I uploaded it (the clock is ticking), I try uploading it again to see if I just did it wrong. Nope (the clock is still ticking).  Then I look around in the menus to see if there's some other way I should do it. I look in "File" and see "Export..." but that's not the operation I need (the clock is ticking). I look in the "Insert" menu but I don't see anything that says "Insert STL" or "Insert Model" and "Insert Mesh" doesn't really mean anything to me- I have an 'STL' file and I don't see anything there that suggests that I should use anything from that menu. (The clock is still ticking). So I sign and turn to Google. I ask Google how do I upload an STL file-- 'cause that's what I'm trying to do... and this is what I see (screenshot below)...  If you use the information which is directly there in front of you on Google, you will end up redoing the steps to upload the STL file which didn't work (the clock is still ticking). When that doesn't work and you read the article (ticking clock) you find out some stuff about STL's and Meshes, but still nothing particularly about "Insert Mesh" but rather more circuitous instructions for how to convert the STL file you UPLOADED into a mesh. (The clock is still ticking). Eventually I throw my hands up and post a question to the support board and walk away frustrated and out of time.

Asking Google How to Upload STL File

[Anonymous]

I would love it if you all would hire me for my IGNORANCE. That's a serious and bonafide offer. I would like to be your Homer Simpson to try out all your fancy neato stuff on so you can see how my little brain interprets it and takes it in some completely unexpected direction.

I don't think your product (Fusion 360) is bad-- quite the opposite-- I think it's pretty brilliant, but only for people who ALREADY THINK the way you need them to. For regular, everyday kind of folks who pull it up now and then and just want to get something done, it *isn't* very intuitive-- at least not all the time, but it's getting better-- and when you get stuck, it can take a long time to get unstuck. So the end result is that I *don't* get done whatever it was I wanted to get done and I have a little bit of resentment toward the product because of the time spent trying to figure it out and the project not accomplished.

But fortunately, I like Fusion 360 and figure it's just me being stupid somehow and I come back and try it again. I make progress in little incremental steps that are hard-won and take a lot of time (for me) trying to figure out how to do what I want to do. I *intuitively* have a notion for what I want to do-- meaning I can visualize the operation I need / want to accomplish-- but then get lost in trying to figure out the "Fusion 360" way of doing it. I don't have the technical jargon that you do. I don't think "fillet" or "chamfer" (I mean, I guess I do now 😉 I just think "I need to round that off, how do I do that?"-- or whatever.

You tell me, "Oh you should have done such and such, it's so obvious" is great when you KNOW what to call it or the name of the operation you need. But it doesn't do me much good if I can't hit upon the 'magic keywords' to use when I'm looking for help. And again I point out that there isn't really a "here's how to use it guide" that I can fall back on-- your "Help Menu" notwithstanding. I've invested a lot of time watching a lot of Lars videos and NYC whatever it is and others-- usually when I'm *NOT* in front of my computer. And what they typically do, more than anything, is tell me WHAT kind of operations are available on a broad view, and while I try to follow them along to see stroke-for-stroke how it's done, it's very tedious to have to stop YouTube, wind it back, watch it again, wind it back-- etc... to try and pick up a technique I would grasp instantly the first time if I could simply READ the operations guide and see it there laid out in front of me.

And again I'm not trying to knock any of the fine folks who make the videos. They are great videos and I've learned a lot from them. But all of them take a lot of time, LOTS of time, to learn how to do things which (I contend) out to be quite a bit more "intuitive" to do. I'm not a CAD professional and the time I can devote to it is somewhat limited-- between working, house and honey-do's and kids and all the other stuff that I need to do-- I just want to make stuff.

I've built 3D printers, CNC routers, robots-- all kinds of fun stuff-- from the nuts up. I've been programming and working with electronics since I was a kid (I'm 56 now). I'm not unfamiliar with making things in many contexts-- but this CAD stuff just seems (to me) more complicated than it needs to be. The workflows work fine for people who are trained to do this stuff, but not so much for a guy like me who doesn't have as much time to invest-- even though I am investing the time. It's slow-going and I don't have much to show for it yet apart from my enthusiasm (and hope) that I will eventually get it figured out. I get side-eyeballs as it is from my wife who thinks I oughta be out mowing the lawn or something instead of spending the hours with the CAD program... 😉

[steven2BAQB]

I am going to end my contribution to this discussion by stating that Fusion 360 is an amazing piece of software, but there is a huge amount of room for improvement.  These discussions are a great way for the Fusion 360 engineers to hear from the users, and frankly I find it insulting to see "We are not going to fix it" comments for such trivial and basic points.

I have a list of gripes that are starting to add up since I have started working with this product;   If Fusion 360 was open source, I would have fixed it them myself, but it is not, so all I can do is state the issues I face and offer suggestions.

In learning Fusion, I watch many videos showing various engineers' workflows; It is so apparent as these experienced hosts ALL make the same mistakes, usually in dealing with wrestling with sketch constraints, unclosed dialog boxes, and hidden tool modes, that this product can be greatly improved.

[MontyFlange]

Seems to me the developers don't want to welcome the new wave of users and want to stick to 'the old days' and ignore 3D printer users , 

[Phil.E]

I'm not here to offend you or dismiss you, rather inform you and help you, deciding to be honest with you, rather than tell you we are looking into it when I'm not able to make that call. This conversation has clearly stirred up some passions, and we are hearing it. 

Just for the record, one reason the workflow of Insert>Mesh was created, with the chance to pick units, was for this very customer base: 3D printer users. It may be time to take a new look at the upload workflow, because the new experience of Open > STL has exposed this issue newly. I can promise to take this message to the team that works on Open.

Sorry for any misunderstandings or if you felt dismissed. That is not the case, thanks for being on this forum giving your thoughts!

Regards,

[steven2BAQB]

+1 That's exactly what I was looking for.  Thanks!

[MontyFlange]

I still think it was a bad idea to stop 123 Design. That could have been developed into a brilliant tool for 3 D printer users. 

[MontyFlange]

But also, if you look, this thread started in 2014 and it's still a problem 

[lichtzeichenanlage]

I'm a 3d printer user and I think Fusion 350 is a outstanding tool ...

[Anonymous]

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@lichtzeichenanlage wrote:
I'm a 3d printer user and I think Fusion 350 is a outstanding tool ...

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Fusion 350... that's like Preparation G, right?

[lichtzeichenanlage]

Good boy - you've found a typo...

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@lichtzeichenanlage wrote:
I'm a 3d printer user and I think Fusion 350 is a outstanding tool ...

---

Fusion 350... that's like Preparation G, right?

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[tullCDMKB]

I might have missed this in the thread, but, if stl and obj files store no size information, why do they import to my 3d printing software at exactly the right size?  This is paradoxical.

[Phil.E]

Because your printing software assumes all units=1mm. Fusion assumes all units = 1cm.

[Anonymous]

sheesh, I'm yet another newbie caught by this.  Ok the answer is simple enough (load mesh) but is it really necessary for ever new user to get caught out and waste an hour or so finding the correct answer.   Why the heck cant autodesk simply, on file load, see its an stl file and pop up a what units dialogue box.  Come-on autodesk get this fixed.

[Anonymous]

the problem with this explanation is that any Slicer program correctly interprets the dimensions EVERY TIME.

I have noticed the same issue in Tinkercad.  

Somehow my slicer knows how big to make STL files.  I never need to tell my slicer what dimensions were used.  I have downloaded literally hundreds of STL files from thingiverse and have never had to know what units the creator of the STL file was using, my slicer, and my 3d printer print them in the correct size.  

How then does my slicer and 3d printer know the units if Autodesk software can't know?