Unpredictable Parametric Solving with Tangent Constraints in Fusion360

Unpredictable Parametric Solving with Tangent Constraints in Fusion360

Amyoqzy
Advocate Advocate
652 Views
9 Replies
Message 1 of 10

Unpredictable Parametric Solving with Tangent Constraints in Fusion360

Amyoqzy
Advocate
Advocate

Description of the Issue


In Fusion360, I've encountered a recurring issue where the software unpredictably solves new profile geometries, leading to errors that disrupt the reliability of parametric designs. This unpredictable behavior persists even when all parameters are within valid ranges, complicating the creation of dependable designs.

 

Demonstration

 

To demonstrate this problem, I've prepared a short video that walks through the construction of a basic object. This object is a single profile rotated around an axis. Throughout the video, I primarily accept the default constraints suggested by Fusion360, with a single exception where I opt for a colinear constraint over a parallel one to introduce additional restriction. The sketch is intentionally basic to highlight the issue at hand.

 

 

Design Objectives


The designed object, intended for 3D printing, features sidewalls with consistent thickness ("h_thickness") across its height. Both arcs in the design share the same radius and are offset by "h_thickness", ensuring the wall width remains constant in the XY plane—crucial for optimal 3D printing aesthetics. Other design specifics include:

 

  • A fixed start angle of 30º for the arc.
  • A rounded rim at the top with a 10mm width.
  • A design constraint to not exceed a 40º print angle, leading the rim to terminate in a straight line for printing feasibility.

Core Issue


The problem arises when attempting to modify dimensions such as the diameter, which theoretically should not affect the profile's shape. Unexpectedly, changes to the diameter sometimes cause Fusion360 to solve constraints in an illogical manner, significantly altering the design.

 

Illustration of the Problem

 

issue1.png

 

The initial sketch, fully defined and indicated in black by Fusion360, incorporates multiple tangent constraints, pinpointed as the issue's source. Despite the sketch being marked as fully defined, altering the diameter unpredictably disrupts the design, deviating drastically from the intended geometry.

 

issue2.png

 

Potential Cause


The crux of the issue likely stems from the inherent ambiguity in tangent constraints between a line and an arc or circle, where two potential tangents exist. When aligning a circle with two lines via tangent constraints, the circle's position remains undefined, yet Fusion360 marks this as a fully defined state. This indicates that, beyond merely recording the objects bound by a tangent constraint, Fusion360 also attempts to determine the correct tangent, a process which appears to be flawed.

 

By sharing this report, my aim is to shed light on this critical issue affecting parametric design reliability in Fusion360, in hopes of prompt attention and resolution from the development team.

0 Likes
653 Views
9 Replies
Replies (9)
Message 2 of 10

TheCADWhisperer
Consultant
Consultant

@Amyoqzy wrote:

 Unexpectedly, changes to the diameter sometimes cause Fusion360 to solve constraints in an illogical manner, significantly altering the design.

 

The initial sketch, fully defined and indicated in black by Fusion360...


 ...yet Fusion360 marks this as a fully defined state


@Amyoqzy 

You are missing a Vertical Constraint.

I don't think this will effect the behavior that you observe, but I would Fully Define the sketch and test again.

0 Likes
Message 3 of 10

Amyoqzy
Advocate
Advocate

@TheCADWhisperer Thank you for your input! I appreciate you taking the time to review this design and for the hint that you think there is a missing vertical constraint. You're absolutely right about the importance of fully defining sketches for clarity and predictability in Fusion 360 designs.
Since the Fusion design is available for download, to simplify things, could you please demonstrate where and how to add the missing constraint to the sketch in this design? Your demonstration of how to do this would be highly appreciated.

 

Update: I found the missing constraint and realized I could have even deleted these lines since they are not important to the design. Now, the issue appears as follows:

 

Screenshot 2024-02-19 at 14.18.03.png

 

0 Likes
Message 4 of 10

TheCADWhisperer
Consultant
Consultant

@Amyoqzy 

Move the 140 dimension up.

You should now see an unconstrained Construction line to the right (in my image I dragged it out of vertical).

Add a Vertical Constraint to this line.

TheCADWhisperer_0-1708348873460.png

 

 

 

1. Note that it now turns black.

2. Note that there is now a Lock glyph on the sketch in the browser.

 

TheCADWhisperer_2-1708348957881.png

The missing Lock glyph was my clue that the sketch was not fully defined.

 

This line also showed unconstrained in your video and screenshot.

TheCADWhisperer_0-1708349066288.png

 

0 Likes
Message 5 of 10

Amyoqzy
Advocate
Advocate

@TheCADWhispererThank you very much! I found it a few seconds after replying to your message. Please see the update in my previous reply. As you correctly speculated, the missing constraint does not solve the issue at all.

0 Likes
Message 6 of 10

rokenbuzz
Contributor
Contributor

@Amyoqzy wrote:

As you correctly speculated, the missing constraint does not solve the issue at all.


So if the problem isn't solved, then now what? Why did this thread just end with no resolution?

0 Likes
Message 7 of 10

TheCADWhisperer
Consultant
Consultant

@rokenbuzz 

Do you have another example to add to the body of evidence?

0 Likes
Message 8 of 10

rokenbuzz
Contributor
Contributor

So there isn't a problem already demonstrated here?

0 Likes
Message 9 of 10

TrippyLighting
Consultant
Consultant

@rokenbuzz wrote:

So there isn't a problem already demonstrated here?


There is a problem, but no general solutions are available that apply to every problem.

As such, if you have another design that exhibits such problems, please share it.

 

 


EESignature

0 Likes
Message 10 of 10

rokenbuzz
Contributor
Contributor

I have nothing in a convenient state to share. For me, usually its a problem that comes up in the big project and some simple change of a few mm in a sketch earlier in the timeline causes some later fully constrained sketch with tangent constraints to go wonky. I think it's because tangency can be satisfied in multiple ways, so really the sketch wasn't truly fully constrained in a pedantic sense, despite it being marked as such.

Everything I work on is some new novel passion project idea, whether successful or not, so I'm unlikely to share it. I'd have to replicate the problem somehow, but that's torture on top of torture. And in the end, I'm sure I'll just be shown how to use some construction geometry to make is "more" constrained. Which is what I normally do, though with trial and error and not enough condidence.

I wish there was...
- some kind of directional tangent constraint

- or some kind of feedback from the UI that the sketch has such a fragility, so I can solve it now instead of later when I change some other sketch/parameter

- or a better algorithm that recognizes the resulting calculation that just exploded the sketch like an unwound spring is the second best result, not the first

- or AI will soon enough fix all of this, so never mind 😛

 

0 Likes