eGPU support for macOS High Sierra

[Anonymous]

Hi,

Will Fusion 360 be supporting the external GPU capabilities of macOS High Sierra? I have one of the apple graphical developer kits with a Thunderbolt 3 external GPU enclosure and a Radeon RX 580 GPU. I was hoping this would boost the performance of my MacBook when doing design work but it doesn't appear that Fusion 360 can use/recognise the new GPU yet. The card has installed correctly (see system report screenshot attached) and I've been able to run some benchmarking tests against it so I'm pretty sure the card itself is working, but Fusion 360 graphics diagnostic still references the internal card (see output from diagnostic at the end)

Has anyone else tried this out or managed to get this working yet?

Maybe I'm being optimistic but I was hoping to get myself a super-capable design set up when working at my desk (with the eGPU) with the benefits of a system that still works with less power when I'm out on the road.

Any comments would be welcomed.

Chris.

Fusion 360 graphics diagnostic:

[GPU Information]
GPU Device: Intel(R) Iris(TM) Graphics 550
GPU RAM: 8192 MB (Integrated card)
GPU Driver API: OpenGL

[Graphics Effects Settings]
Use high-resolution graphics: On
Anti Aliasing: Off
Ambient Occlusion: On
Object Shadow: On
Ground Shadow: On
Ground Reflection: Off
Selection Display Style: Normal
Transparency Effect: Better Performance

[Limit effects to optimize performance]
Off

[innovatenate]

I haven't seen many support inquiries related to eGPU's on macOS and haven't tried this myself so forgive any dumb questions here. 

After setting up the eGPU, does the Automatic graphics switching option appear in the energy saver Preferences for the OS? If it does, I'm wondering if disabling it would help? Sorry about the blind guess here, but I thought I would take a swing at it. 

[Anonymous]

Hi Nathan,

Thanks for the response - I realise that I'm pushing things a bit expecting compatibility with something that is still in Beta! So I appreciate any help.

No the eGPU is a powered chassis and so doe not appear in the Automatic Graphics Switching - my MacBook only has the integrated graphics card so this option doesn't appear with or without the eGPU connected.

I have noticed something else; the GPU RAM seems to be able to see the memory available (8GB) but not the card when the eGPU is connected - compare the Graphics diagnostic originally posted with the one below created when not connected:

Graphics Diagnostic (with eGPU NOT connected):

[GPU Information]
GPU Device: Intel(R) Iris(TM) Graphics 550
GPU RAM: 1536 MB (Integrated card)
GPU Driver API: OpenGL

...

[Anonymous]

I have some additional information which may be relevant to this post:

I have realised I haven't provided you with enough information about the set up and how it was working.

The eGPU chassis is a sonnet eGFX Breakaway Box which contains a Radeon RX580 GPU.

The chassis is connected directly to my MacBook using a thunderbolt 3 cable.

The monitor is connected directly to the GPU using HDMI (i.e. anything displayed on the external monitor has to come through the eGPU)

I was running F360 on the external display meaning that it must have been using the eGPU even if it wasn't aware. The performance was definitely not what you would expect from the card, and I experienced a number of crashes (see forum post "materials manager crash"), however it must have been working to some degree.

Hope this additional information helps.

Chris.

[innovatenate]

Thanks for the additional info. I just don't know much about this at the moment. I'll inquire a bit more about the topic and see what I can find out. 

[zeljko.m85]

I'm so glad to see eGPU talk here! 

I have an old 13" MBPR with i7 @ 3.0GHz and Intel Iris HD 4000 integrated graphics. My second laptop is an 15" MBPR with quad core but about 25% lower clock speed so the benefit of onboard GPU is not significant when compared to 13" machine. 13" is faster overall. 

I have rigged up an Nvidia 1050 Ti eGPU via Thunderbolt #1 link and connected external monitor to the eGPU and the whole setup worked well for me until new OS update which has blocked the eGPU support for non Thunderbolt #3 machines - that is really a shame. 

I can confirm that Fusion saw increased RAM size of the eGPU, and all my work was done on the external monitor so it had to help a bit (?). 

I have loaded some +1000 parts assemblies to compare before and after and to me it did seam that panning around the assembly was much smoother with the eGPU connected. 

It has crossed my mind that with eGPU connected HD4000 made a large portion of 1500MB of confiscated RAM available for the CPU so the whole process on CPU could run smoother. Previously I have noticed that my RAM memory pressure would turn yellow and that obviously did not happen while the eGPU was connected. 

That's just my experience with eGPU and I might be wrong - don't rush buying an eGPU until there is something official form Autodesk or Apple as the eGPU story seems quite controversial. 

Right now I'm waiting for some official words of support to come out before I make my mind on buying a new 13" MacBook & eGPU combo. If nothing comes alight the iMac seems like a better solution as the GPU already works wit hall the processes. 

[schack.lindemann]

Any news on this subject? Since the last reply in this thread Apple officially supports eGPU with 10.14 and forward. The aforementioned Sonnet eGPU with Radeon is even approved for Metal and OpenCL. But since Fusion only supports OpenGL it seems that Fusion/eGPU isn't the best combo. I'll keep my fingers crossed since it would be a perfect solution for me. 🙂

[zeljko.m85]

---

@schack.lindemann wrote:

Any news on this subject? Since the last reply in this thread Apple officially supports eGPU with 10.14 and forward. The aforementioned Sonnet eGPU with Radeon is even approved for Metal and OpenCL. But since Fusion only supports OpenGL it seems that Fusion/eGPU isn't the best combo. I'll keep my fingers crossed since it would be a perfect solution for me. 🙂

---

The news is that I have unboxed my new Mac Mini i7 today. I have also dropped in 32GB of RAM so I should be fine with that for quite some time. Paired with my MM is the Sonnet eGFX breakaway box (think it is 350 model) with a Sapphire RX570 Pulse, 8GB RAM GPU. 

I have run stand alone MM while it had only 8GB of RAM and pan&zoom was quite painful experience. With the eGPU it goes quite well. 

From what I have gathered on the web, the HD630 iGPU has about half of score of what RX550 2GB GPU would score. So that might be sufficient for hobbits requirement. I bet the MM would need to have more than 8GB of RAM as 1,5GB gets eaten by HD630. That being said, I might give it a try now with 32GB of RAM. 

If you have any tests that you'd want me to perform and document I will be glad to do it. 

Kind regards

Zeljko 

[zeljko.m85]

For some details I could not see your attachments before I've logged in. 

I see that you are running the RX570 but the Fusion does not see it.

Try following:

Update your Fusion 360 to the latest version.

Close the Fusion app

Connect the eGPU & reboot the Mac

Fun Fusion & check the graphics again. 

I have noticed that Fussion does not automatically "jump" on the eGPU if I have just connected it while Fusion was running. If I close and re open Fusion it then runs on the eGPU.

Let me know if that has helped.  

[schack.lindemann]

Hi

Thanks for your suggestions, but no matter what I try, I can't get Fusion to utilize my eGPU. I'm running the latest macOS version, I've tried both the AppStore version and the website version of Fusion 360, both the latest releases. But to no avail. They only use the internal IRIS graphics on my Macbook Pro. 

[GPU Information]
GPU Device: Intel(R) Iris(TM) Graphics 550
GPU RAM: 1536 MB (Integrated card)
GPU Driver API: OpenGL

I might be wrong, but as far as I can deduct, OpenGL isn't supported with eGPU's. Only Metal and OpenCL. 

[zeljko.m85]

Hm, What is exact flavour of your RC570?

I remember that there was quite a few threads about the GPU firmware that had a lot to do how OS will handle the external GPU. 

In short, there was a thread that recommended several models of MSI and Sapphire GPUs. I think you are having OS issues - not the Fusion. 

My Sapphire RX570 Pulse with 8GB of RAM is being utilised by the OS.  I can confirm that by running Intel Power Gadget where you can see the Intel's GFX frequency - it should be showing 0 if external one is used.  

Can you try to see if you can set Fusion to use High res graphics in the Your Name / Preferences /  Graphics / Check the "Use high res graphics" checkbox. 

Now you probably need to restart Fusion... 

For my RX570 Fusion is stating: GPU Driver API   Open GL - it has to work on your machine. 

What model of Mac are you using? Is it TB3 or earlier?

[schack.lindemann]

Since Fusion is leaving the Mac app-store I changed to the web-deploy version from Autodesk. And this seemed to fix my eGPU issue. Now when I start Fusion with the eGPU connected, it is recognized and used. 🙂 Big thumbs up! 

On that app-store subject, I understand why Autodesk wants to streamline development and it's a hassle to work with different deployment paths, but the web-deploy is just such a messy install on the Mac. It not installed in the applications folder and is therefore not seen by utilities like Alfred by default. There are small issues like that but no deal breakers. 🙂 

[Anonymous · Accepted solution]

An update on this topic - some time in the last year or so my eGPU seemed to effectively start working, although it was not properly recognised by Fusion 360 (i.e. graphics diagnostics still doesn't report correctly) it seemed to mostly work. However I recently found a definitive solution (for me at least) on this thread. I stumbled across this official support page from apple: Use an external graphics processor with your Mac.

Of particular importance is the bit about halfway down the page titled "Use the Prefer External GPU option". I followed these instructions and hey presto, everything started working exactly as it should.

I still seem to have slightly more instability than I would expect - not sure if this is eGPU or just Mac related though - however Fusion now recognises my eGPU properly.

[bmxjeff]

Any updates here. Does Fusion still use the eGPU for modeling? What about CAM Sim? 

@keqingsong 

Thanks!

[zeljko.m85]

Hello there, 

It is running well on my Mac Mini. 

I'm running i7, 32GB of RAM and an RX570 with 4GB of RAM.

The mini is connected to the eGPU, HDMI cable from eGPU to the monitor.

The trick to initialise everything correctly is to power up your mac. Let it run for a minute. Connect the eGPU and check in About This Mac that eGPU is running. Then disconnect HDMI from the Mac Mini and re connect to eGPU.

Then start F360 and check in your Graphic diagnostics that the system is using your eGPU. You can also install Intel Power Gadget and monitor that the GFX frequency is constantly at 0. that indicates that internal gpu is not used at all.

So far all fusion operations are running very well on my setup. I am not having any problems with my work flow on CAD and CAM. The iGPU is never being used as its frequency is 0 on the charts.  But I have seen occasions where both internal and external GPUs would be used if I have not initialised the system as described above. Mainly the problem is when you start f360 before connecting eGPU and swapping HDMI. In that case simply close the f360, restart your mac and run the procedure. 

Let me know if you need any particular tests done, I'd be glad to help you. 

Cheers

Zeljko 

[bmxjeff]

Zeljko,

thank you for going into detail! I’ve been looking into this for a couple days, but Autodesk does not recommend Video Cards for Mac. : ) Makes sense I guess. I think I’m going to try the AMD Radeon XT 5700 8gb I’m gathering its better to pick one that will work for Mac in the long term, than picking the right one for fusion. Back in the Solidworks days, if you got the right card, then it supported more visual options. Now, you can turn them all on!...  but it gets slow. 

We will give it a shot! Thanks again for your reply. 

[zeljko.m85]

I’d go with recommended WX card if I could find one at a good price.
The RX has a little problem moving larger assemblies which is particularly felt when you set the view in to shaded with visible edges. Apparently WX is a killer with that.

The WX3100 is not officially reported as supported card, but I am thinking of giving it a try.

If anyone can fix me up with a WX card for test purpose I’d give it a try.

Cheers
Z

[bmxjeff]

I looked into the AMD Radeon Pro WX 5100. I think for a PC it might be great, but for a Mac, I can't find much support. Drivers and such. Apple seems to be fickle about what they support. My reasoning is, "If they offer it on one of their computers, it's more likely to get good drivers : )" I could be completely wrong!

In the case of the Nvidia card, that did not hold true haha. 

These are the 2 I'm considering for because of Apple Support.

Radeon Pro Vega 56 with 8GB of HBM2 memory

XFX RX 5700 Xt Thicc III Ultra 8GB

[bmxjeff]

I was wrong! It is supported and recommended for CAD / Manufacturing. 

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208544

Here is the link to supported cards. : )

[Anonymous]

Hi @bmxjeff,

I don't use much of the CAM functionality so can't say whether the eGPU improves performance. It certainly does with modelling, as you would expect. I have had no real issue with using F360 with an eGPU.

The only minor frustration is that the frequent F360 updates have the effect of turning off the 'prefer external GPU' option in macOS - you have to notice when an update has happened and then manually re-check this option (see this thread for details: Mac eGPU support broken).

Just as an FYI on graphics card support - the biggest restriction is that macOS only supports AMD cards (unfortunately, so don't even bother looking at Nvidia cards) and your next restriction will be physical size and power supply in the eGPU enclosure. Make sure the box you get supports the card you want. I have a developer edition Sonnet eGFX box which unfortunately does not support the high end AMD card's power supply needs.

Chris