Editing Offset Plane Feature now broken in latest update

[Careless_]

Creating a model here, and made an offset plane which allowed me to change the distance of a loft between two bodies.

I made multiple edits to the same feature throughout the design process, and even before the last operation that I committed before saving manually. 

Saved the model, went back to edit it about 5 hours later. Every time I edit the Offset Plane feature to change the distance between the two models, the plane disappears and it tells me that the Reference geometry is missing.

can't really do anything with this model now if this problem will remain.

update:

yep, it's broken as hell. can't even edit the offset plane in a version of the same file that is 10 revisions ago.

[SaeedHamza]

Hi,

Could you please attach your file here in f3d format

Regards, Saeed

[Careless_]

would rather not publish my work here for anyone to download.

is there another way of accomplishing or going about this?

[Careless_]

managed to fix it by rolling all the way back to my first sketch from which i created the offset plane.

then I created a new offset plane (the original one wasn't even in the same spot it was originally created in, it was moved way off on the X and Y axis some how)...

following the creation of a new offset plane, I deleted the disappearing offset plane, which prompted the next sketch to require a Redefine Plane, and I ended up selecting the new one that I created off the first sketch.

[Careless_ · Accepted solution]

one last update.

it seems that during a file recovery, the first sketch turned off for some reason, so i keep having to turn sketches on to select which sketch portion to offset the plane from. upon reenabling the sketch that had visibility turned off, i was able to select the desired sketch path to offset from.

but after saving, the program crashed again.

latest version is unstable as far as I can tell.

[ahreum.ryu]

Hi @Careless_, 

I'm sorry you are experiencing this issue. 

Has your issue been resolved?  because this post was accepted as a solution. 

if you need more help, could you share your model to us? my email address is "[email protected]. 

I look forward to your reply

Many thanks, 

[Careless_]

yes, i have marked it as solved and wrote the reason for the issue as stated in the last post before yours.

thank you

[Anonymous]

I hit this issue just now too. I don't consider the suggested solution to be a proper solution.  

I had been going back and making changes to my loft/offset many times while working on my design, no problem.  But if I close and re-open the file... POOF, geometry lost.  While this may be due to sketches being turned off as mentioned, it is unacceptable for state of the project to be altered "magically" between closing and re-opening.  Also I'm a noob at Fusion 360, so I was at a total loss as to what in the world happened until I found this forum thread.  I am not a noob when it comes to software UX, and this fails to meet an acceptable production quality bar big time.

@ahreum.ryu, please consider a proper fix.  Thanks!

[Careless_]

you're absolutely right, and I agree with your sentiments.

I marked the previous post as a "solution" to draw attention to what I did to fix it.

It would be GREAT if F360 would keep a record of the last associated sketch/whatever the action/feature was associated with, so that if it is found- it can automagically be turned on when editing that part of the timeline, and upon editing and returning to the main timeline position it could just turn off again if that's the state it was in before editing.

Also, an option in the program preferences window to "automatically turn on referenced sketch items/feature when editing" would allow the user whether to control if it happens or not, though I don't see why it would bother anyone.

Another suggestion would be

Program Preferences
> Sketch handling when editing timeline features

--- Automatically enable/disable sketches

--- Notify me of disabled sketches, and allow me to turn them on or off

--- Do nothing

[jeff_strater]

Can someone post a screencast of this problem?  I am having a hard time visualizing what the problem really is.  What I see is:

1. there is a sketch in the design.
2. there is an offset workplane from that sketch 
3. via some edit, the offset workplane loses the reference, and fails

I see references in this thread to "enabled/disabled" sketches.  This is not a concept that I am aware of in Fusion.  Can you explain further?

The one workflow that I am aware of where an offset work plane can fail is something like this one:

The workflow here is:

1. create a sketch on one of the origin workplanes
2. draw some sketch geometry that define a closed sketch region (profile)
3. create an offset work plane by picking that closed profile
4. edit the original sketch, and delete some of the geometry that defined the profile
5. exit the sketch

The work plane will fail.  But, I would argue that the failure, in this case, is "correct".  That's because in step 3, I specifically selected one of the profiles in this sketch, and that profile no longer exists.

Instead, see this screencast, which shows another workflow, in which the offset plane is chosen from the origin work plane that the sketch is based on.  This reference will be more stable under any sketch edits to that sketch:

Jeff

[Careless_]

by "enable/disable", what I meant was turning visibility on/off (using the lightbulb icon in the component browser).

A screencast isn't necessary, and I'd have to screencast all of my designs until it crashes and happens to record the instance and also be a file where there is an offset plane- which not every design needs or has.

essentially it's this:

1) create a file & save.

2) create sketch

3) offset plane using an item on that sketch as a reference point and stop sketch.

4) carry about your business

5) program crashes

6) recover auto-save data and continue working on file

7) try to go back and change the offset plane parameters (add or subtract distance)

8) error: reference geometry not found (sketch automatically turned off)

Maybe it's not a bug, but I wouldn't call it a feature (unless this product is developed by bethesda. lol jk)

IDEALLY, If I have a sketch turned off whilst designing parts at other stages of a file way further down the time line, and I choose to change the offset plane I created waaaaaaaaaaay back in the timeline, the sketch or reference geometry that it is based upon should automatically be turned on when I choose to edit it at a later time. perhaps the temporarily enabled visibility would be signified by the use of a different coloured lightbulb, like a purple one or something (akin to being visible only under UV/certain lights).

the idea proposed above only stems from the experience I had while troubleshooting what I think (or thought) might be a bug after the program crashed... But now I think it's more of a UI or productivity issue that could be addressed fairly simply as far as user intervention goes.

correct me if i'm wrong, but when creating new items/features, the prior sketch always gets automatically turned off, right? so not as to confuse the user, perhaps? so why then should the referenced sketch on something like an offset plane that has been automatically turned off require the user to manually turn it back on? If I am wrong and it works for you without any issues with F360 locating the reference geometry, then it's clearly a bug because it didn't automatically find it when I chose to edit the offset plane distance after reloading the program, post crash.

as roachslayer pointed out, this happens when merely saving and reopening the file at a later date as well- so it quite possibly has nothing to do with the crash at all.

[Anonymous]

@jeff_strater wrote:

...

1. there is a sketch in the design.
2. there is an offset workplane from that sketch 
3. via some edit, the offset workplane loses the reference, and fails

 ...

---

If, for example, I delete something that has a dependency down the line (such as deleting a sketch that later has an extrusion on it), I get this warning:  "This feature is referenced by other features in the timeline. Are you sure you want to delete it?"  

So re: #3 above, if that is what is happening, I would expect at the very least to be alerted to such changes that are going to affect the Offset Plane.

I'm not aware of having made any changes in the timeline that the Offset Plane was relying on, though that could have been my case.  And I cannot get consistent repro now either, despite my desire to help provide more detail.  I do know that in my particular design, I was relying heavily on changing the offset often, as I was tweaking things.  I would add to the drawing, go make a change to the offset, and go add more to the drawing, etc.  It was ONLY after saving and re-opening that I experienced the "geometry lost", and the funny thing was, the reason I re-opened the file was to make an offset change, nothing else!  I was pretty shocked (and frustrated till I found this thread) that I could not change it, and I was at a loss as to what geometry was removed or how to resolve. Fusion 360 did not help me determine what the problem was even if there was a legitimate problem that I caused.  And to my point above regarding alerts, it also did not help me prevent said problem.  So at the very least, I believe the software (not just the user) has some improvement potential in this area from many perspectives here.

I hope this helps.  I'll post specifics if I can identify more.

[Careless_]

pretty much exactly what I had experienced, roachslayer. I was using the offset plane many times during the design phase to modify the distance between two lofted faces.

I came back to the file that crashed hours later, and thought I had done something wrong that I shouldn't have- but I was constantly making changes to the offset plane without issue prior to that, so I deemed it to be some sort of UI bug after discovering it's the sketch that's turned off.

F360 doesn't acknowledge that it exists when editing the offset plane upon reopening the file. So now we have concluded that it doesn't have anything to do with the crash, but has to do with the saving/closing/reopening/editing offset plane (haven't tested many other features yet) of a file.

i think there's nothing more we can do at this point other than wait for a fix.

[jeff_strater]

Thanks, @Anonymous, @Careless_.  If you are ever able to reproduce this behavior, we'd love to see it.

Regarding delete:  Yes, it would be good to preview downstream features that would be affected or deleted when an object is deleted.  This is in our backlog, and we hope to get to it at some point.  It would help, I agree.

Jeff

[Careless_]

Hi Jeff,

thanks for the follow up.

I revisiting this thread because i've come across this issue again- similar, but not exactly. I have to stress; sometimes this program makes me feel really, really dumb. I've been using various drawing programs of all kinds, with the capability to draw on mulitple layers within a single document. I understand it's partially due to my forgetfulness, but when I try to edit a feature and can't select the sketch the feature is based on even though it is turned on- the program does not tell the user "all your sketches are turned off"

I realize it's just something I'll have to get used to, but if you're trying to get people to switch from SolidWorks or other CAD programs, it would help to point out these things in the UI, because I keep thinking I'm doing something wrong- and I really am... but the program gives me NO indication whatsoever- and I feel like I've come to learn this program, only to feel rather stupid because of this UI inconsistency.

One would say "well that's your fault", but I can't think of a single situation where telling the user "none of your sketches are visible because the main light-bulb is turned off" would be a bad UI choice. To me, it seems natural that the sketch you're trying to edit would turn on by itself, be edited accordingly, and then turned back off to its previous state when the user stops sketching.

If I attempt to edit a sketch that is turned off in SolidWorks 2017, it will let me edit the sketch, and then hide itself once I exit sketch mode. It's something the user shouldn't have to think about, IMHO. I'm sure there are a few people that would agree with me on this.

[campbellblc]

Ultimate noob here. Lot's of 2D, starting with Mech. Eng. Dads drafting board w/ horizontal straight edge in the '50's, to my board with draughting machine in the 60's, (dad didn't like it, difficult  to use with triangles), to mid 80's 2D computer program which I fly on, 'til I met Fusion 360 a couple of months ago. I've shocked myself with my frequent fowl language eruptions but understand F360's incredible potential and it's present state of furious and diverse development. Lot's of cooks stirring this stew....

....but, quote from "careless" above: "To me, it seems natural that the sketch you're (e/m)  trying to edit (but how do it know?) would turn on by itself, be edited accordingly, and then turned back off to its previous state when the user stops(e/m) (but how do it know?) sketching," OMG! Unintuitive hand-holding and well intentioned baby-coddling are F360's greatest flaws! I hate that when I choose to make a circle, that F360, is pretty sure that we're primarily all perforated screen makers and that surely most of us need a million more holes, all individually placed, awful! That stupid auto click-and-go next line should be a key board option, I hate that silly etch-a-sketcher default.  Seriously, what % of CAD folks primarily need endlessly repeating squiggles from their line tool? I know, I know, "parametric". Too many more to list... Now about intuitiveness.... never mind....  I know, thousands of cooks 'a stirrin'. Probably ways to turn off some of the more speed-bumpy default's, I'll find some of 'um eventually.....hopefully...

It's love/hate but mostly love-love-love and thank all of you!

[Careless_]

r u drunk?