coil around a pipe bend

[Ait-Tek]

HI 

I am looking to form a 15mm dia coil around the outside of a 90 deg bend. could some one explain the work flow please. its to pass hot water through for heating the contents of the pipe.

Thanks in advance 

Andy

[jhackney1972]

Please attach your model so the Forum users can give a relevant answer to your work.  If you do not know how to attach your Fusion 360 model follow these easy steps. Open the model in Fusion 360, select the File menu, then Export and save as a F3D or F3Z file to your hard drive. Then use the Attachments section of a forum post to attach it.

[jhackney1972 · Accepted solution]

You did not supply your model so I created an elbow.  You can play around with the timeline to change the elbow radius and length, the wrap angle, etc.  You must make sure the dimensions of all do not allow the wrapped pipe to intersect itself.  I can do a Screencast later if I have your model and you cannot figure it out from my model.  Model attached.

[Ait-Tek]

Thanks John,

Ill get their one day.. still learning.

as suggested I have amended your time line to suite my application. I get a "Split Face" error. but it looks great.

can I ask if its possible to start and finish the coil on the bend only and also to start the coil with a 180/200 deg horizontal (parallel with the ends) to make my connection to it easier.

something like this

really appreciate your help

[jhackney1972]

Achieving the "flat section" of the wrapped tube is getting into an area I am a bit fuzz on, I did my best.  You can play around with the Sweep numbers to adjust the straight section wrap angle.  I only did one end.  The other issue, making it joint the coil tube, resulting in a tube that is a little out of square on the end due to the angle change.  Again, I do not know how to make it join to the coiled tube any other way.  I tried to walk through the process in a Screencast indicating why you got the warning in the first Split Face command.  Model is attached.

[Ait-Tek · Accepted solution]

Once again John, 

Thanks for the detailed description on how you resoled my issue, and yes it now gives me plenty of things to practice with.

Regards

Andy

[Ait-Tek]

hey John,

its the first time I have done this so checking the wrong box was my mistake.

Like I said I really appreciate your help. so please accept my apologies

Andy 

[davebYYPCU · Accepted solution]

A cylindrical termination is possible, takes a fiddle, due to the fillet I attempted not being supported, but replaced by building the Lofts.

Step up the timeline and the angles not right? Fillet Spread, and or flat rotation angle.

I set parameters so that each end will update with any changes required.

Might help....

[Ait-Tek]

Hi Dave,

sorry for the late reply, been on vacation.

looks exactly what I need, ill pay around with it. thanks for your help

Regards

Andy

[Ait-Tek]

I have just reviewed your time line, and its blown me away, I am a novice at this, and you have used stuff I never would of thought about.

I tried modifying to suite my application but just couldn't do it. could you point me in the right direction please. No rush though.

I would use normally a 63OD long rad elbow with only 3-4 coil loops. Its used on chocolate pipework to keep it fluid around 55C.

Thanks in advance.

Andy

[davebYYPCU]

Ok, set this file up for Parametric updates tested 3 -> 6 turns 

Edit the parameter table, for pipe size, wall thick, and heating coil turns, etc.

Happy to answer questions

Might help....

[Ait-Tek]

your fantastic, you certainly know your way around Fusion, I have been using it on and off for just over a year, and tried this project several time, so really appreciate your help.

I tried to change a couple of things but mucked up your model. I was trying to move the first coil back from the end of the pipe as we would typically weld a union on to the ends so need around 20mm . I also upped the coil pipe dimeter to 21.8 (1/2") pipe. which it didn't like at all lol. I tried to reduce the coilTurn but it didn't like that.

again I appreciate all the time you have given.

reduced coilTurn to 3

Thanks in advance 

Andy

[davebYYPCU]

Ok, no drama, there is a large change in diameters, so will double check some things.....

(I will plug in those new specs see how it goes, )

The order of changes should not matter, I would go in this order

change pipe diameter/s

change coil turns,

Only thing I didn’t test was the changing of the coil length and sketch planes, I tested all the others.  Moving the sketch plane that far, might give unexpected results.  While I am fixing things, the entry and exit directions, suit your purpose?  Currently “inside” the elbow, but you may have a preferred direction....

[Ait-Tek]

Hi Dave,

I should of said about the coil pipe dia been 1/2" as we have to put a thread on it. regarding the outlet, exactly as you have them please both out on the same side please.

thanks for your help

Andy

[davebYYPCU]

You just broke my crystal ball.

To have the inlet / outlet of the heat pipe both facing the same way, puts one inside and one outside, will take the lower one as correct, and fix the other one. 

later....

[davebYYPCU]

Based on the Pipe table in message 10, 

your larger heat pipe diameter threw a spanner into the last version, early attempt, 2 turns but pipes are not facing same way, 

There is only room for 2 pipes in the throat of the elbow, allowing for the larger setback as mentioned.

So facing the same way means I am stuck with 1.5 turns.  (Spigot on the inside low, will move the top to the outside)

Let me know if there is a problem.

[Ait-Tek]

HI Dave

looks like I am giving you sleepless nights lol.

now I have seen the model I understand what your saying. we do have an option of 2D bends that might help fix some of the issues. I did pump the dimensions in from the 2D table but didn't quite work.

Dave, I want to pay you for all your efforts, so let me have some method of paying you (email through paypal etc) because I really do appreciate the effort you have put in so far, I would still be thinking about it. I cant even follow how you actually do it lol

[davebYYPCU]

Ok, that pipe table will work for the 2.5 or 3.5 turns because the throat is much wider.  This last file broke because I used half ellipses and they are notoriously unreliable in my experience.  This latest file was to demo the problem of the small throat and went down a rabbit hole with the small throat, can go back to Version A now with this series of pipes.

Will send a PM, with file link.

Much easier this time.

[Ait-Tek]

Hi Mate,

Awesome work mate, could do with the heat pipe extending, we normally add between 25-30mm of lagging then a thin metal clad, and as you see the threaded pipes just come outside of the insulation so another say 30mm would be great. I have added some typical fittings so you can see the finished job.

I haven't changed any parameters yet.... to scared lol, but I will try different scenarios. 

send me through some method of treating you to a few beers if you have PayPal then I think an email address 

Once again really appreciate the time you put in to this.

Andy

[davebYYPCU]

The latest version Timeline in the PM, is a little different to my last pic in here, gets more efficient each iteration, with the sizes as required.

There are two ways to lengthen the pipe ends, quickest is to Edit each ruled surface, from the Timeline, and change the length there, or in the Parameters list, dig into that tree and find / edit the Ruled Surfaces.  They are 50 at the moment.  

You could make a User Parameter, and update the Features.  If you do that, then that would end up just one change in the future, instead of both.

Might help....