After derived part gets updated, copy/pasted bodies lose associativity

[jackdepew]

I have a master component that I derive into many other files. I then copy/paste a body from that master file into the new file to begin designing. After copying and pasting, there are many features, sometimes hundreds. With the latest update, every time I update the master component (named Primitives in the screenshot below) and save it, the derived component is removed from the file and the downstream copy/pasted body therefore loses associativity. When I double click on the derived feature and relink it, the copy/pasted body is now a deprecated feature -- along with the hundreds of features after it, multiplied by a dozen or so files. I thought I'd only have to go in and re-link all the features up once, but it's every time I update the derived component, which is untenable.

This has quickly turned into a major headache, any advice or work arounds would be greatly appreciated! 

[jackdepew]

I'd like to add that all joints break when I update the file with inserted components, and have to redo everything from scratch.

[CGBenner]

@Phil.E do you have any thoughts on this, or maybe know who we could tag in to help this user?  Thank you!

[TrippyLighting]

The true crux is that the copy-paste feature is still not editable.

Making it editable should then allow to re-select the object nd allow to fix the other stuff that breaks in the timeline. 

While this request does not come up often, the request is at least 4 years old!

The workaround is not to use the copy-paste feature (for solid bodies) but use the boundary fill command, because it is editable and allows re-selection. Obviously that only helps if one knows that in advance 😉

[Phil.E]

I cannot reproduce the issue. 

This image shows the result of following the instructions posted here.

1. I created a design that has a body at the root. 
2. Then derived the body into a new design, added sketch, hole and fillet.
3. Then copied the derived body (pre modifications) and added a new sketch, hole and fillet.
4. Then derived the component into that same design, copied the body from it, and added sketch, hole and fillet.

When I make the extrude in the source design taller, all the updates perform as expected. In this case, I have not introduced new features in the source, nor have I destroyed any of the source parametric information.

My guess here is that the source document "primitives" is getting edited in a way that destroys the parametric information (face ID, edge ID, body ID) and the downstream effect is what you'd expect in any situation where you delete parametric references that exist upstream: downstream parametric failures are created.

[TrippyLighting]

@jackdepew we need the model. Please export as .f3d (or .f3z) and attach to next post.

[jackdepew]

I'm using Boundary Fill as a re-selectable Copy/Paste now. Thanks for that recommendation. It doesn't cure the underlying problem of my Derived components losing associativity, but it may be enough for now! 

I can't share my project as the contents are confidential. None of the parametric features were deleted. So I don't know why Insert Derive is acting up for me.

[Phil.E]

I was able to recreate a result as you describe by editing the derive source file and moving the box body into a component. That is a cut/paste operation and it completely destroys the parametric references that the derive source provides to the consuming design.

In my test, the body being moved from the root to a sub-component disconnected it from the derive operation. Check your derive operation, what are you deriving, and did you change fundamental aspects of the derive source file by edits like moving as such: body>component, or component>component, as browser operations.

Here is a handy reference for how to avoid destroying parametric references in your designs, by understanding how parametric references are used in Fusion. There's a video, and 63 page manual for the class.

https://www.autodesk.com/autodesk-university/class/Debugging-Your-Fusion-Design-Lets-Get-Rid-Red-and...

I hope this helps.

[jackdepew]

Thanks for your reply and for linking to your webinar. I'm watching it now. I believe the problem is neither a geometry error nor a dependency error. I think it's a bug in the Insert Derive feature. I want to share the design with you, but I cannot.

A couple strange symptoms:

• Sometimes updating out-of-date references duplicates the source component's sketches in the child file it's derived into. In other words, the connection remains (woo!), and there are two copies of each sketch from the source file (boo!).
• And other times when updating out-of-date references, the geometry is visible and selectable on the canvas (woo!), but the component(s) is missing from my list of components in the left sidebar, and requires me to re-link it (boo). And then when I re-link it, that component inherits a new number next to the name. This is my initial issue where I then have to go through and essentially recreate my files from scratch, due to loss of associativity. 

I hope this is helpful! Sorry I can't share the file. I haven't had any issues with Insert Derive until the last update. 

I think for now I need to roll back my timeline, delete the Copy/Paste, and use Boundary Fill. Hopefully that works. If not, I may need to recreate all my files from scratch, free of any derived components. In that case, if I need to redesign, it will create duplicate work for all files sharing that geometry, and margin for user error. But this way the files will be more stable and reliable. 

[TrippyLighting]

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@jackdepew wrote:

Thanks for your reply and for linking to your webinar. I'm watching it now. I believe the problem is neither a geometry error nor a dependency error. I think it's a bug in the Insert Derive feature. I want to share the design with you, but I cannot.

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If this error is not limited to a single design, then you should be able to reproduce it in a simpler, non-NDA design that can then be shared. 

That would help a lot in tracking this down! 

[nigel76FS8]

What I would really like to see is a way to simply turn this on and off. It is great that things inherit things for some things, but for others it is a pain. If I duplicate a part, I should have a simple option to pick there and then, and, even better, later on! (I'm 100% certain everyone has duplicated a part then changed it, then found that they can't make a certain change because the original gets affected, and so on. It's a bit broken. And in fact my newest bug report is along very similar lines!)

[Phil.E]

There is. Just right click on the derive node and break link.

[nigel76FS8]

Brilliant! Thank-you! Star! @Phil.E 

I presume that's fairly new, since no-one pointed to it last time I asked for an answer.