Fusion360からエクスポートした中間ファイルのaccuracy（寸法精度）について

Anonymous

Fusion360からエクスポートした中間ファイルのaccuracy（寸法精度）について

Anonymous
適用対象外
‎11-02-2018 01:24 PM

Fusion360から中間ファイルでエクスポート、金型工場へのデータ支給を検討しています。

金型加工の都合や、データ交換時の形状破損防止の意味でも、accuracy（寸法精度）は
0.001mm以下で支給したい所ですが、Fusion360から中間ファイルのエクスポート時には
寸法精度等の設定項目が見当たらず、そのままでは寸法精度が足りず、複雑な形状では形状破損が
おきています。

又、他の質問では以下のように耳にしているため、モデリング時の設定問題でも無いようです。

表題：トレランス（許容差）数値について

ジオメトリ群を構成する精度としては、フィーチャによりますが、0.00001mm程度が最小値になります。（絶対精度）　また、この精度を変更することは出来ません


どのような手順を踏めば、寸法精度0.001mmのstepファイルを作成できるのか、わからない状況です。

よい方法ありましたら、教えて下さい。

以上、よろしくお願い致します。

Fusion360精度設定検証.jpg

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kandennti
Mentor
Mentor
‎11-02-2018 08:01 PM

y_nakamuraさん　こんにちは

 

こちらに関連しそうな記述はありましたが、対策らしい対策では無いような･･･

https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/fusion-360-support/step-export-quality-tolerance-settings/td-p/800212...

 

Igesでも確認しましたが0.01mmでした。　但しStepはわからないのですがIgesの場合

「トレランス0.01mmのデータです」と言う意味ではなく、「0.01mm以上の精度を持つCADで

インポートしてください」のような意味だったような気もします。

（まぁ結局トレランス0.01mmってことになるのかも・・・）

 

>寸法精度0.001mmのstepファイルを作成できるのか、わからない状況です。

 恐らく設定出来る項目が無いと思うと、MAXの条件で処理を行っているのではないのかな？

と思います。案外、それらを（エクスポートするバージョンとか）設定出来るCADの方が

少ない気もします。

 

>複雑な形状では形状破損がおきています。

トレランスの問題もあるかも知れませんが、ソフトの相性のようなものもある

かもしれません。個人的にはCADカーネルがACIS系のソフトを多く使っているので

よく変換できている印象です。（Parasolidでしょうか？）

 

無謀なアイデアですが、Fusion360で10倍にスケーリングしたデータをエクスポートし

受け取り側のソフトで1/10倍にしてみると･･･難しいかな。

 

 

以下は、読み飛ばして頂いても構わないぐらい、個人的な印象です。

Fusion360は、複雑な形状の大きなデータも比較的軽く扱える印象を持っています。

（Autodesk製品全般に言えるのですが、画面上の表示が綺麗なのにも関わらずです）

その理由の一つがトレランスが少し甘いのではないのかな？　と思っています。

 

スプリクト作成したりするとわかるのですが、Fusion360が内部的に持っている

長さの単位はセンチメートルです。

http://help.autodesk.com/view/fusion360/ENU/?guid=GUID-A81B295F-984A-4039-B1CF-B449BEE893D7

一般的な機械系CADの場合はミリメートルです。

 

同じCADカーネルを使用しているInventorもセンチメートルのようです。

https://adndevblog.typepad.com/manufacturing/2012/07/unitsofmeasure-object-and-example.html

 

この事を考えると、Autodesk ShapeManager（CADカーネル）自体の長さの単位が

センチメートルなのではないのかな？と感じてます。

通常のCADで0.001でエクスポートするものを0.01で行う理由も何となく納得できたりします。

（10倍にして1/10倍にするのは、そんな意味です）

 

となると、もうどうやっても届かない領域のような気がします。

但し、”常に高精度のものが良いもの”　とは限らないとも思ってますよ。


微妙な名前のブログ


サービスユーティリティエクスポート方法
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Anonymous
適用対象外
kandennti への返信
‎11-05-2018 02:34 PM

kandennti様

 

カーネルの仕様等まで含めて、色々な情報有難うございました！

>10倍にして1/10倍にする
この方法（厳密には最初から10倍で作成して、受け手ＣＡＤで1/10倍にする）
である程度対応可能なようなももの、どうやらFusion360は、パーツ寸法が大きくなると、絶対精度0.01mmではなく、相対精度に変化してしまうようで、10倍スケールでは直ぐに上限(2000mm)の寸法を超えてしまい、残念ながら完璧な対策とはならない感じでした。

 

>（Parasolidでしょうか？）

creo parametricは独自カーネルのようです。

 

以下、読み飛ばして頂いても構わないぐらいの余談です。

 

業種によって必要な精度はまちまちなものの、下流工程都合で0.001mm精度が要求されてしまう（金型加工の為の物理的精度として、データ交換の利便性として）業種は確実に存在していて、CAD乗り換えの選考基準（必須スペック）
になってきたりするので、是非オートデスクさんには『絶対精度固定モード』と『トレランス0.001mmモード（カーネル上の処理に対して、UI上の表示寸法とエクスポート時の寸法を一桁ずらして、10倍精度で作動）』的な物を実装して、シェアを広げてほしいなと思いました。
少なくとも対creo parametric（インポート時、外部精度で設定）でのデータ交換の打率は、かなり複雑な形状であっても、ほぼ問題の無いレベルで実現可能なようなので、後一歩なんですよね。

 

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gymnyan-man
Mentor
Mentor
Anonymous への返信
‎11-05-2018 04:19 PM

こんにちは

 

Fusion360の要望を上げるための日本語フォーラムがありますので、今回の要望をこちらに投げてみてはいかがでしょうか。

https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/fusion360-aidia/idb-p/963

 

現場視点でのCAD選考基準を考慮した説得力のある要望だと感じましたし、自分も是非欲しい機能でもあります。

アイデアページに投稿されましたら投票させていただきますし、要望用のフォーラムに書き直すのが面倒な場合は代理で書いちゃいますのでご一考ください。

 

EESignature


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Anonymous
適用対象外
gymnyan-man への返信
‎11-05-2018 06:51 PM

gymnyan-man様

 

フォーラムのご紹介有難うございます！

 

早速投稿させて頂きました。

 

『トレランスの指定』『絶対精度への固定』機能の追加

https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/fusion360-aidia/toreransuno-zhi-ding-jue-dui-jing-duheno-gu-ding-ji-n...

 

よろしくお願い致します。

 

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We use G2Crowd to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by G2Crowd. Ads are based on both G2Crowd data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that G2Crowd has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to G2Crowd to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. G2Crowd Privacy Policy
NMPI Display
We use NMPI Display to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by NMPI Display. Ads are based on both NMPI Display data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that NMPI Display has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to NMPI Display to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. NMPI Display Privacy Policy
VK
We use VK to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by VK. Ads are based on both VK data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that VK has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to VK to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. VK Privacy Policy
Adobe Target
We use Adobe Target to test new features on our sites and customize your experience of these features. To do this, we collect behavioral data while you’re on our sites. This data may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, your IP address or device ID, your Autodesk ID, and others. You may experience a different version of our sites based on feature testing, or view personalized content based on your visitor attributes. Adobe Target Privacy Policy
Google Analytics (Advertising)
We use Google Analytics (Advertising) to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by Google Analytics (Advertising). Ads are based on both Google Analytics (Advertising) data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that Google Analytics (Advertising) has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to Google Analytics (Advertising) to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. Google Analytics (Advertising) Privacy Policy
Trendkite
We use Trendkite to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by Trendkite. Ads are based on both Trendkite data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that Trendkite has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to Trendkite to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. Trendkite Privacy Policy
Hotjar
We use Hotjar to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by Hotjar. Ads are based on both Hotjar data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that Hotjar has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to Hotjar to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. Hotjar Privacy Policy
6 Sense
We use 6 Sense to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by 6 Sense. Ads are based on both 6 Sense data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that 6 Sense has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to 6 Sense to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. 6 Sense Privacy Policy
Terminus
We use Terminus to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by Terminus. Ads are based on both Terminus data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that Terminus has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to Terminus to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. Terminus Privacy Policy
StackAdapt
We use StackAdapt to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by StackAdapt. Ads are based on both StackAdapt data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that StackAdapt has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to StackAdapt to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. StackAdapt Privacy Policy
The Trade Desk
We use The Trade Desk to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by The Trade Desk. Ads are based on both The Trade Desk data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that The Trade Desk has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to The Trade Desk to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. The Trade Desk Privacy Policy
RollWorks
We use RollWorks to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by RollWorks. Ads are based on both RollWorks data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that RollWorks has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to RollWorks to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. RollWorks Privacy Policy

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