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Wrong Spun Profile

CAMXPRESS
Advocate

Wrong Spun Profile

CAMXPRESS
Advocate
Advocate

Dear Support Team,

 

I have noticed that the Spun Profile calculation is wrong with complex geometry.
Do I miss something?

Joe

 

spunp_1.pngspunp2.png

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seth.madore
Community Manager
Community Manager

Can you share that file?

File > Export > Save to local folder > Return to thread and attach the .f3d file in your reply

 

There is a feature flag for a new spun profile algorithm, have you tried that one yet?


Seth Madore
Customer Advocacy Manager - Manufacturing
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CAMXPRESS
Advocate
Advocate

Hello Seth,

 

Thank you for the fast response.

Here is the file. Where is the New Spun feature tick?

 

Joe

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Anonymous
Not applicable

What's missing is sketch used to produce revolved body. I split the body and projected section onto plane, trimmed what was not needed and saved as DXF .

Undo split body, start a new sketch and import that DXF file than used it to select geometry to cut.

 

 

 

 

2019-08-29 07_45_56-Autodesk Fusion 360.png

 

2019-08-29 07_37_07-Autodesk Fusion 360.png

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Marco.Takx
Mentor
Mentor

Hi @CAMXPRESS,

 

To activate Feature Flags:

 

First, turn on View Text Commands which is CTRL+ALT+C

 

Set it to Txt

Finally, type in cam.f in the text field and press enter. 

 

Can’t check your model. In behind my iPhone at the moment. 

 

If my post answers your question Please use  Mark Solutions!.Accept as Solution & Give Kudos!Kudos This helps everyone find answers more quickly!

 

Met vriendelijke groet | Kind regards | Mit freundlichem Gruß

Marco Takx
CAM Programmer & CAM Consultant



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seth.madore
Community Manager
Community Manager

Well, the Feature flag version of Spun Profile is also not solving this, so it appears that we still have work to do on that tool. A ticket has been opened up. The method laid out by @Anonymous is the best solution for now :slightly_smiling_face:


Seth Madore
Customer Advocacy Manager - Manufacturing
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Anonymous
Not applicable

I want to add a comment that may help others facing same scenario. I get models from customers that were created in other software, more often then not those models are not in sink with prints or need stitching and refinements, such as in case of IGES files.

 

In this case it is possible that circles were extruded to create initial body rather than revolving a sketch.

You can always add a sketch but in case model has more complex profile I prefer to project section so nothing is missing. I do this routinely because of the fact that some turning operations need to see sketch of part profile.

 

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CAMXPRESS
Advocate
Advocate

Hello VicKosta,

 

Thank you for the reply. Your solution only work if the base part is a revolved part.

If I made the top "pyramidic" boss extruding a scetch and after draft the sides, yo do not

have information about the revolution profile.

The spun profile needs to work independently the way of the part design.

 

Joe

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Anonymous
Not applicable




@CAMXPRESS wrote:

Hello VicKosta,

 

Thank you for the reply. Your solution only work if the base part is a revolved part.

If I made the top "pyramidic" boss extruding a scetch and after draft the sides, yo do not

have information about the revolution profile.

The spun profile needs to work independently the way of the part design.

 

Joe


 

 

 

I respectfully disagree;

 

If it doesn't exist, make a sketch or project profile of section, select as turning geometry, it works, it's in the title,.......... "spun profile".

I don't dispute lock of features and refinements in turning, but in this case, "the only solution that works" is the only solution I need.

I noted that customer supplied models don't have any sketches so I create it if I need it.

It works for me while Fusion works on the "other" solution, I made dozens upon dozens of parts with this impairment.

It may have to be dependent on main body because it needs to match part of its configuration, perhaps in form of hidden, duplicate body or automated sketch produced by additional menu that triggers its creation.

 

I can machine parts using existing solution or refuse to do so while waiting for "real" solution, the choice should be obvious.

 

 

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CAMXPRESS
Advocate
Advocate

Hello VicKosta,

 

Thank you for the fast reply. I think you misunderstand me about creating profile.

If you able to define the spun profile ONLY ONE PLANE your method work. But sometimes,

you able to generate the profile sketch only if you "rotate" the part. See that pic:

spun3.png

 

Or it might be happen that I do not understand your solution :slightly_smiling_face:

I have attached this model. If you think your method work this sample please be kind to

draw the spun profile of this model.

 

Thank you for your help. I just like to find a solution that always work.

Regards,

 

Joe

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Anonymous
Not applicable

I have to get on with my daily work but I promise to get back to this later today. For now, here is the turning outline of your model using spun profile.

Only one small section of the model is being finished by turning tool, two gray spots in the picture, the rest will be milled using ball end mill.

I am a  machinist, my job is to evaluate model from all angles and determine how to machine it, create conditions for it and produce tool paths to complete the task.

I use tools available to me to the extend of their current capability and my skills in employing them to my advantage,

I don't expect peace of software to do the thinking for me and perhaps that's where we disagree, to the best of my knowledge, at this point in time Fusion does not act as artificial intelligence.

 

I will upload file for your review when I am done machining whole model.

 

2019-09-03 05_44_00-Autodesk Fusion 360.png

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CAMXPRESS
Advocate
Advocate

Hello VicKosta,

 

You are lucky at this time with the automatic profile generation.

The question is how to use your manual method at this time if the automatic spun profile is wrong?

(I only like to learn tricks and do not like to overload you my questions.)

 

Regards,

 

Joe

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Anonymous
Not applicable

@CAMXPRESS wrote:

Hello VicKosta,

 

You are lucky at this time with the automatic profile generation.

The question is how to use your manual method at this time if the automatic spun profile is wrong?

(I only like to learn tricks and do not like to overload you my questions.)

 

Regards,

 

Joe


Actually, wrong again, I was not lucky, I took a close look at model from every perspective then generated sketch and made sure turning tool does not violate any section of the model.

Because I am convinced that spun profile has something to do with using part profile and spinning it around Z axis for purpose of determining boundaries for turning tool when model is not round or symmetrical, I can create such profile that outlines boundaries of my choice.

Without that profile you have nothing, putting check mark in "spun profile" box on setup tab does not automatically generate result out of thin air.

If future development makes that possible it would be very useful, but for now, I think it's tool that requires user interaction.

If this is not how it works, I welcome more in depth explanation from people who created Fusion, meanwhile, my way gets things done for me.

 

Regards,

Vic

 

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seth.madore
Community Manager
Community Manager

@Anonymous wrote:

Without that profile you have nothing, putting check mark in "spun profile" box on setup tab does not automatically generate result out of thin air.

If future development makes that possible it would be very useful, but for now, I think it's tool that requires user interaction.

If this is not how it works, I welcome more in depth explanation from people who created Fusion, meanwhile, my way gets things done for me.

 

 


Nope, you got it 100% on the head. V2 Spun Profile "should" resolve this part correctly, but apparently there are still bugs in the system. Those have been logged and we will use this part to strengthen the algorithm that's failing.


Seth Madore
Customer Advocacy Manager - Manufacturing
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Anonymous
Not applicable

@CAMXPRESS wrote:

Hello VicKosta,

 

You are lucky at this time with the automatic profile generation.

The question is how to use your manual method at this time if the automatic spun profile is wrong?

(I only like to learn tricks and do not like to overload you my questions.)

 

Regards,

 

Joe


OK so I didn't answer your question yet, the automatic spun profile is not generated by Fusion because something is missing, it's not "wrong",....... it's just not there.

What I did is, I provided missing link in few steps.

First, I rotated model so that planes are not berried inside model, now I can select any plane without turning off model first.

Second, I selected XY plane and created sketch, added circle concentric with cylindrical part of the model and adjusted size to see circle just outside closest part of the potato part of the model.

Now I had clear view of which part of potato is largest on diameter.

I drew a line from origin thru point on circle where potato is closest to the circle, visually estimated.

I rotated model to position that part of potato in line with X axis.

I switched to XZ plane and cut model in half, projected profile onto plane and saved as DXF file.

Recovered model by undo command, started new sketch on XZ plane and imported DXF file.

Used part of the sketch near shoulder and added few lines to create outline for turning tool towards front end.

I closed the shape at center line and trimmed unneeded lines, looked at the model from other views and found no problems after tool path was generated.

 

In conclusion, you are not restricted to one plane, you are allowed to rotate model wherever you see fit, for whatever reason, you can create as many planes and sketches as it takes, beat things into submission whichever way it works.

Machining rest of the potato side of model is not benefiting the topic of this thread so I don't care for it.

As I mentioned before, if I start the model for machining on mill-turn, I always start with sketch and revolve around Z axis to create model, that saves me trouble of discovering that for "some reason" spun profile is not working when I need it.

 

With some more attention, it looks better using same process, so if you follow my steps, you can get lucky too.

2019-09-03 22_08_52-Fusion360.png

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daniel_lyall
Mentor
Mentor

@CAMXPRESS  With fusions cam almost anything goes sketch, surfaces, stock body, and defeatured bodies it all is relevant.

At times I have gotten a solid model for a lathe and have had to make a revolve profile as it was hard to get a nice clean toolpath, or it was long and thin so need material left in places the easy way to do it was with a sketch.


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Daniel Lyall
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CAMXPRESS
Advocate
Advocate

Hello VicKosta,

 

Thank you for your lot lot lot of work about this topic.

The consequence of me about spun profile: If it works it is easy, if not we need to do a lot of manual tasks.

And thank you again your work.

Regards,

 

Joe

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Anonymous
Not applicable

The task of generating tool path takes about 5 minutes, took a lot longer to explain it, I see some threads resurfacing back months after solution was found for original issue.

I start every project with dose of suspicion, ....what if I do this or that, what's the most effective way?... in time some things become routine, you may skip over bug without knowing or discover one by accident so I think key is in  experimenting.

I have some parts to do where customer yanked components out of assembly and left them in arbitrary position, no matter what plain I pick, part is always in some odd position.

Then I thought, what if I make a new body on  one of the planes, make components, assemble two parts and then delete one I no longer need,.......... fixed the problem of guessing where to rotate part or by how many degrees.

So some things are not crystal clear but there is always some way around obstacles, just another day here.

 

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