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Suggestion: Make Modeling-"Selection Sets" useful in CAM

Anonymous

Suggestion: Make Modeling-"Selection Sets" useful in CAM

Anonymous
Not applicable

Why are the Selection Sets created in the Modeling Environment selectable in the CAM Environment.... that would simplify a lot of things.

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jeff.walters
Advisor
Advisor

If you can give me a good example I will be happy to submit your idea to the developers for their consideration.   

Jeff Walters
Senior Support Engineer, CAM
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Anonymous
Not applicable

Hi Jeff,

I've had a look around for methods for dealing with line segments of what I have imported as an open polyline. (Perhaps it is my dxf export settings that I should be experimenting more with). In the modelling environment double clicking segments will intuitively select the rest of the segments with coincident end nodes but this doesn't seem to occur when assigning CAM processes (in my case, a trace operation). A way around this (if a join function for segments is not to be included) would be to allow for selection sets to be accessible at CAM stage.

 

Regards,

David

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Anonymous
Not applicable

in  my case, i have a pattern of holes in a grid pattern being used for a spoil board in a cnc router. i am machining holes in both sides. i have a stepped hole which i will install threaded inserts into. i found the fastest tool path strategy for my machine and material is 3d adaptive. the catch is that i need to set boundaries to the hole edge for the hole pattern i want to use, and not the exposed hole edges from the holes originating on the other side of the board.

 

a selection set would allow me to pre-define the features associated with each side's hole pattern, for selecting during the tool path definition. another option to simplify this would be making the feature timeline at the bottom of the model window available in the cam window as well, for selection purposes. 

 

at 144 holes, comprised of a counterbore with two steps in each... that would be a tremendously laborious clicking process. i'm sure there's additional ways to program the selection process to allow more options and even smarter selections.

 

i really do like some of the forward thinking options in fusion 360. i come from solidworks, and i think there are still some things solidworks does better. the drawing implementation in fusion 360 is horrid atm.

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Steinwerks
Mentor
Mentor

This is pretty simple and programming one hole and adding those toolpaths to a Linear Pattern could speed things up dramatically. If you still want to use 3D Adaptive, you can pretty easily use a sketch to contain the toolpath entirely (the screencast below is just one way to alter a toolpath using sketch containment, try just sketching a box that you want the toolpath to limit itself inside of):

 

 

Neal Stein

New to Fusion 360 CAM? Click here for an introduction to 2D Milling, here for 2D Turning.

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Anonymous
Not applicable

that's a programmer level work around for a limitation in the softwares ability to interpret the correct machining strategy. i've also wondered why there are not options for "pass direction" or something along those lines.... mastercam has some tools to control the pathing horizontal to x or switched to horizontal to y (as an example).

 

i really despise that if i want to force a tool path to do something specific, that i have to add a sketch to a part model to force the CAM algorithm to perform as i would program it if i were doing it manually. this thought process of having to do additional steps to process something correctly goes against my intuition about how CAM is supposed to be simplifying programming.

 

i'm not complaining. i'm trying to explain what i'd like to see in hopes that future versions could afford more programming flexibility. there have been many times using hsmworks/xpress in both solidworks and fusion 360 where i've found myself using additional sketches, and generating tool paths over and over trying to get it to do exactly the motion that i need it to do.

 

 

responding to your sketch to define the hole boundaries... is that not still going to involve selecting only the outer edge of each hole in order to do a projection? i suppose i could select the face of the part and project, but then i'd need to remove all the hole edges i do not want. not quite as easy as selecting the feature and pattern in the timeline.

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Anonymous
Not applicable

[quote]This is pretty simple and programming one hole and adding those toolpaths to a Linear Pattern could speed things up dramatically.[/quote]

 

are you saying this functionality is available? or something that might be able to be added?

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Steinwerks
Mentor
Mentor
The functionality is available now. Right click your toolpath and select 'Add to New Pattern'. IIRC that's what it's called anyway, I'm not at my computer. Same thing exists in all the flavors of HSM. Make sure to select Order by Tool though if using more than one or you'll get a ton of tool changes.
Neal Stein

New to Fusion 360 CAM? Click here for an introduction to 2D Milling, here for 2D Turning.

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Anonymous
Not applicable

it appears i'd have to supply the pattern dimensions and directions (effectively duplicating the pattern). it doesn't seem to function the same as "sketch driven pattern" or a feature driven pattern such as is found in an assembly model that drives number and arrangement of parts based upon the seed item's features.

 

in other words, if i went back and changed the hole spacing on the original pattern, i'd have to also make the same change on the hsm pattern. at first glance, it also appears that the CAM portion of fusion 360 does not have access to the part parameters (under the idea of creating a parametric pattern, and supplying that info to the hsm pattern).

 

perhaps i missed something?

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jeff.pek
Community Manager
Community Manager

You're right that the system doesn't currently have any ability to be associative to an already existing CAD pattern -- either a feature pattern or component pattern.

I agree that this would be a nice enhancement, but we don't have it in the current roadmap.

 

I'll add it as a story in the roadmap. I checked the HSM Idea Station, and am surprised to not find a request for this there.

It's probably a good idea to add one, to get some community support behind the idea.

 

Thanks for the explanation and suggestion.

 

Jeff

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Steinwerks
Mentor
Mentor

@jeff.pek this has come up before though: https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/fusion-360-computer-aided/choose-selection-set-as-geometry/m-p/638117...

 

Aside from that one thread I know I've seen it discussed in other threads as well.

 

At any rate, @Anonymous, one could consider that a fully-integrated solution like Fusion 360 will have to include the flexibility of what you call a programmer workaround. Mastercam is CAM-only (yes, I've made geometry in MCam, and I really hope to never have to do that again), and so its options are limited with regard to how to limit or constrain toolpaths. This makes it more flexible on a CAM side, but if the same can be achieved through CAD in combination, I don't see that as detrimental or in need of CAM alterations. The functionality is simply relocated and more variable than cascading menu-depths. It's also more flexible.

 

I have never run into a CAM system in which everything works as expected or needed either, and have lied to Mastercam, Gibbscam, HSMWorks, Fusion 360 and CAMWorks at different times and due to differing limitations (that last one is a doozy for workarounds). Creating a sketch is pretty small-fries IMO in this regard, even though I agree that it feels crappy.

Neal Stein

New to Fusion 360 CAM? Click here for an introduction to 2D Milling, here for 2D Turning.

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Steinwerks
Mentor
Mentor

@Anonymous wrote:

 

 

responding to your sketch to define the hole boundaries... is that not still going to involve selecting only the outer edge of each hole in order to do a projection? i suppose i could select the face of the part and project, but then i'd need to remove all the hole edges i do not want. not quite as easy as selecting the feature and pattern in the timeline.


 

No no, what I meant here is literally draw a box around the holes and call it the 3D Adaptive boundary.

Neal Stein

New to Fusion 360 CAM? Click here for an introduction to 2D Milling, here for 2D Turning.

Find me on:
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Anonymous
Not applicable

could you please comment on why this does this really odd ordering (that increases rapid distances? i can easily discern a path between holes that creates a shorter rapid distance by doing a simple left to right up-down pattern. with such a straight forward linear array of holes, i'm not sure why the CAM system does the diagonal moves like this which increases the total rapid distance. all the holes are the same, and all cuts are done within each hole before moving to the next.

 

also, why is there no option in the 3d adaptive strategy for the tool to stay down within the pocket? even with "stay-down level" at "most", it does a full retract in the middle of the individual pocket features.

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Steinwerks
Mentor
Mentor

@Anonymous wrote:

could you please comment on why this does this really odd ordering (that increases rapid distances? i can easily discern a path between holes that creates a shorter rapid distance by doing a simple left to right up-down pattern. with such a straight forward linear array of holes, i'm not sure why the CAM system does the diagonal moves like this which increases the total rapid distance. all the holes are the same, and all cuts are done within each hole before moving to the next.

 

also, why is there no option in the 3d adaptive strategy for the tool to stay down within the pocket? even with "stay-down level" at "most", it does a full retract in the middle of the individual pocket features.


 

Have you tried checking the 'Order by Area' box? This may help on both fronts.

 

Without a sample it's difficult to troubleshoot though. Can you export it as a .F3D and attach it here?

Neal Stein

New to Fusion 360 CAM? Click here for an introduction to 2D Milling, here for 2D Turning.

Find me on:
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Anonymous
Not applicable

order by area was used.

 

i've attached the file here. (apparently i cannot leave this field blank).

 

i did use the pattern tool for the tool pathing. it did reduce compute times for the tool path, but i'm still not excited about using it bc of the human error factor if i decide to change hole spacing numbers later down the road.

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Steinwerks
Mentor
Mentor

I confess, I don't know why the ordering is so terrible.

 

Maybe @jeff.pek can direct this towards the developers, and in the meantime I suggest making a Selection Set usage in the Ideastation here: https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/hsm-ideas/idb-p/231

 

If location changes are a concern, you can always use Bore Mill in the Drill cycle. Ordering for that isn't stellar either (Gibbscam in my experience always had the best traveling salesman solution), but it will save you tons of programming and calculation time. I've attached the file with that strategy in it as a comparison, but didn't really spend much time tweaking the heights so there is room for improvement on that front.

 

You could also do a Bore Mill cycle on one hole and then pattern it so all diameters are done at each location.

Neal Stein

New to Fusion 360 CAM? Click here for an introduction to 2D Milling, here for 2D Turning.

Find me on:
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cadop5R9X9
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

I have many indents or features on some model, for example, a bunch of inset pockets.  I don't want those to be included in some finishing operations.  When using the contour/scallop/morph operations, I choose Avoid/Touch Surfaces, then it asks me to select those surfaces.  It is very frustrating how poor that selection capability is, including when accidentally selecting a component when I am halfway through 50 selections, then doing it each time I want to try another operation.  I already have a selection set of the faces I don't want a specific operation on, and yet selection sets disappear when moving into the manufacture tab. 

 

I think this is a pretty illustrative reason why fusion should have this. 

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zinefer
Contributor
Contributor

I would love to be able to assign my 2d Contour tab positions via a selection set of points that exist in a sketch

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