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Probing on fixture

12 REPLIES 12
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Message 1 of 13
jagSJMV8
568 Views, 12 Replies

Probing on fixture

Once you have had to import a fixture in the design space to have it available in the manufacturing space, I end up with the problem that Fusion will not allow me to probe on the fixture (round circle in bottom right corner)

Fusion only allows probing on the body being machined or the stock, and the whole purpose of the OP2 fixture is the hold and probe.

 

Any work arounds?

01-LA1904-MI -AP1MTLxIndexBody20200123 v33.png

12 REPLIES 12
Message 2 of 13
lindseymd2020
in reply to: jagSJMV8

Can you post a picture of your setup screen?

Message 3 of 13
jagSJMV8
in reply to: lindseymd2020

This is the image of the setup screen

jagSJMV8_0-1711360170879.png

 

 

Message 4 of 13
seth.madore
in reply to: jagSJMV8

Hmm, I'm not having that issue on my end:

2024-03-25_06h48_40.png

2024-03-25_06h50_19.png

2024-03-25_06h49_08.png

 

Would you be able to share your Fusion file here?
File > Export > Save to local folder, return to thread and attach the .f3d/.f3z file in your reply. 


Seth Madore
Customer Advocacy Manager - Manufacturing
Message 5 of 13
jagSJMV8
in reply to: seth.madore

I found the solution.

 

Because Fusion does not allow import of fixtures into the manufacturing space, we have to clutter up our design space with fixtures, vices and etc and make them unelectable in order to not have everything crash.

 

Going into the design space and making it selectable fixed the issue, but I really hope that some day your development team will realize that we are some that need to keep our product design space clean and make it so that things belonging exclusively to manufacturing can stay there.

Message 6 of 13
jagSJMV8
in reply to: jagSJMV8

 

If this is your OP1 part and you need to do OP2 in a fixture.

How do you go about that?

How do you handle it in ex a 2 vice setup for op 1 and 2

01-LA1920-MI AP19 LabelApplicatorTongue_HighLowFricMod v36.png

Message 7 of 13
seth.madore
in reply to: jagSJMV8

If I understand you correctly, you're adding your workholding via Manufacturing Models, is that correct? I actually wasn't aware that there were limitations in what you could select (in Probing) when you went that route, that sounds to me like a bug or an oversight.

I, in fact, did not understand correctly. Yes, you've made your Fixture un-selectable and it's not selectable in the MFG space. This is expected behavior.

If you organize your Design file with components and only activating what you need when you need it, it does stay rather manageable and clean.

Would you be able/willing to show a screenshot of how you have things established in the Design side of things so I can better understand your frustration?

As for how I do things? In Design, I've got:

  1. Part 
  2. Stock (sometimes)
  3. Fixture 1
  4. Fixture 2

 

Both fixtures (vise jaws, 5th axis vise etc) are positioned as they would be for machining. In the MFG space, I just assign WCS orientation correctly and select the fixtures I want to see. "Sync Visibility" makes it somewhat painless


Seth Madore
Customer Advocacy Manager - Manufacturing
Message 8 of 13
jagSJMV8
in reply to: seth.madore

Hi Seth,

 

This is the setup we are working on this question. The part illustrated in the question is the one highlighted here

The way we want to work is the way Lars described in this 7 years ago https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzZ3t49jhBU

Some parts are shared in multiple designs.

 

Putting stock material, fixtures and so forth into our machine designs means that our machine documentation requires us to turn off say 500 components on about 10 sheets each to not have 12 vices and 20 fixtures in our labeling machine documentation

 

The absolute strength of Fusion from my business perspective is the promoted fluid connectivity between design and parts manufacturing that we cannot get to work.

 

We would want to keep manufacturing files with the parts, but the workflow really seems to be made for a machine shop that gets a part in for manufacturing, rather than for integrated product development and manufacturing.

 

For manufacturing a part like the one shown, we would do OP1 in a vice, and OP2 and OP3 on a configurable vice pallet (Vice Pallet size and OP1). When these gets combined, we can either not transfer OP1 of the part or OP1 of the pallet and have to find workarounds.

 

I do not understand why we cannot import vices, softjaw blanks, vice pallet blanks ... into the manufacturing space where it belongs and where we would machine the features into them.

 

It really should be possible to do what NYC CNC does here either in two vices or like here but I don't think fusion can do this anymore because, as I see it you cannot flip the in stock processed https://youtu.be/YM2de456TSk?si=D8LiYf68oYnl4XNq

 

jagSJMV8_0-1711455677690.png

 

Message 9 of 13
seth.madore
in reply to: jagSJMV8

With the quantity of components that are involved in your Design side, I would strongly encourage adoption of a workflow called "Derive". You will have a CAM document that contains the fixtures needed for a specific component. Derive the Component into it and now you're working in a more isolated environment, free from the baggage of all other Design elements. With Derive, you still maintain an associated link to the "master" file. Let me know if you're interested in exploring this workflow.

 

This is the workflow (either using Derive or XREF) that folks who work with LARGE datasets have adopted, with few exceptions. It allows them to isolate out one component at a time and provides a mechanism for a much cleaner workflow.

 

In your Fusion Data Panel, it would look something like this:

Main Project (this is your Design File with all the components
Part1 CAM (this would be the CAM file for a specific Component from the above document)

Part2 CAM (same thing, but for the next part)

 

This allows multiple Team members to be programming different parts of the Project at the same time while maintaining associativity back to the main document


Seth Madore
Customer Advocacy Manager - Manufacturing
Message 10 of 13
jagSJMV8
in reply to: seth.madore

The derive feature is indeed a way to keep tings away from the design space,
albeit with doubling the amount of files.

It does however seem that things are imported as bodies and cannot be joined
as Fusion does not allow joining bodies and does not allow converting a
derived design to a component, so I am not sure how to get around that.

>From here it wouuld appear that it should be simple but it still presents
issues that gets me stuck



What I think would be logical as a work flow is

1. being able to export as derived into manufacturing setup 2, and use
this as a solid
2. Being able to import fixture/fixtur blanks into manufacturing setup
2
3. Project pattern
4. Mod fixture
5. Join derive from OP1
6. Program for machining





This is where you suddenly get stuck because you cannoty get the vice/vice
pallet into the system so probing cannot be used from within Fusion

It would be so simple if you could just import and join things here.

Though the old function where you could export STL from manufacturing and
risk loosing changes, it still allowed you to control thing in a way the
otherwise fantiastic manufacturing model setup cannot.

The current setup is so much better until you have to interact with vices
and fixtures.














Message 11 of 13
jagSJMV8
in reply to: jagSJMV8

The best workaround I can come up with is to import part into the vice pallet file, modify, erase part from vice pallet file, program and machine vice pallet.

Import vice pallet into machine part file, project the feature used for probing onto the part, erase the vice pallet, put origin in the projected feature from the vice pallet, and probe manually.

Very clumsy time-consuming and error-prone.

 

 

jagSJMV8_0-1711479559652.png

 

Message 12 of 13
jagSJMV8
in reply to: jagSJMV8

Images from previous post got lost in email response

Screenshot 2024-03-26 19.08.30.png

Screenshot 2024-03-26 19.00.19.png

Screenshot 2024-03-26 18.43.27.png

   

Message 13 of 13
seth.madore
in reply to: jagSJMV8

Would you be willing/able to privately share your Fusion file so I have a better understanding of what you're running into? You can email it to me:

seth DOT madore AT autodesk DOT com


Seth Madore
Customer Advocacy Manager - Manufacturing

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