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No warning on flute length

20 REPLIES 20
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Message 1 of 21
eondekoker
1133 Views, 20 Replies

No warning on flute length

Hi

 

I thought the flute length was 30mm so I made a contour cut with 27mm depth. But while cutting I saw the problem. When I went back to check in F360, I saw the flute length was 25mm instead of 30mm. But I did not get any warning when creating the post or running the simulation. I used to get that on SolidCAM. Does F360 not have this basic function?

20 REPLIES 20
Message 2 of 21
Marco.Takx
in reply to: eondekoker

Hi @eondekoker,

 

Fusion 360 is checking if your Shoulder Length is enough.

If you like to be save you can turn ON Multiple Depth and set the max rouging stepdown to equal or less than Flute Lengte.

 

If my post answers your question Please use Accept as Solution & Kudos This helps everyone find answers more quickly!

 

Met vriendelijke groet | Kind regards | Mit freundlichem Gruß

Marco Takx
CAM Consultant



Message 3 of 21
eondekoker
in reply to: Marco.Takx

Hi, thanks for confirming. Please add this as an improvement request.

If I understand you correctly, you propose to manually select multiple
depth for each operation and manually looking up the flute length for each
tool and manually entering that every time?

I think this misses the point. I am using CAM software to make things
easier and faster and I expect the software to do basic checking, using the
data the software already has. It already knows the flute length, the cut
depth and the shoulder length, so checking the one but not both is an
oversight.
Message 4 of 21
Marco.Takx
in reply to: eondekoker

Hi @eondekoker,

 

No not Manually.

When you turn on the Multiple Depth and fill in the Roughing Maxiumim Stepdown -> tool_fluteLength.

Then right click in the Roughing Step down fill-in area and select Make all default.

 

Now this operation has always the Multiple depth active and is looking for the flute length of the selected tool.

If you like to have 0.5mm less then the flute length you have to enter tool_fluteLength-0.5

 

If my post answers your question Please use Accept as Solution & Kudos This helps everyone find answers more quickly!

Met vriendelijke groet | Kind regards | Mit freundlichem Gruß

Marco Takx
CAM Consultant



Message 5 of 21
eondekoker
in reply to: Marco.Takx

Hi

I have tried your proposal. The result is the following: The flute
length is 25mm and we now set the maximum roughing step to be 25mm. So if
the cut is 27mm the toolpath calculates 25mm for the first cut and 27mm for
the second cut. So the second cut is still more than the flute length and
no warning is given.

The max stepdown value is only the maximum value per step. All the steps
add up to the depth of the cut. So setting the max stepdown value will
prevent the toolpath to exceed the flute length and no warning is given.

The problem still remains.
Message 6 of 21
Steinwerks
in reply to: eondekoker

How would one use a tool like this then, if the software did not allow for a final depth longer than the flute length?

image.png

Neal Stein



New to Fusion 360 CAM? Click here for an introduction to 2D Milling, here for 2D Turning.

Find me on:
Instagram and YouTube
Message 7 of 21
eondekoker
in reply to: Steinwerks

I believe I mentioned that the software should alert in a similar way as it
does on detecting a collision. It can alert with an error message when
generating the toolpath as well as in the simulation.

I find it strange that Fusion 360 captures the flute length and the
shoulder length of the tool but does not seem to make use of it?
Message 8 of 21
VicKosta
in reply to: Steinwerks

I am using same tool to do same pocket, each setup uses dept of cut smaller then flute length and going to same final depth, in setup 4 I tried to use depth of cut of larger value then flute length and Fusion would not have it.

 

On real job, I would not attempt to run such a tool in same manor without leaving progressively more radial stock on every level or having small taper on walls, but test shows that it is possible to use the tool withing flute length depth in multiple depth roughing with warning displayed if depth of cut exceeds flute length.

 

2020-06-12 17_19_37-Autodesk Fusion 360.png

Message 9 of 21
daniel_lyall
in reply to: VicKosta

Set the bottom hight in the toolpath to -tool_fluteLength from the stock top then it can not go past that depth, you can also do 4/ tool_fluteLength to get for stepdown of the flute length.

 

 


Win10 pro | 16 GB ram | 4 GB graphics Quadro K2200 | Intel(R) 8Xeon(R) CPU E5-1620 v3 @ 3.50GHz 3.50 GHz

Daniel Lyall
The Big Boss
Mach3 User
My Websight, Daniels Wheelchair Customisations.
Facebook | Twitter | LinkedIn

Message 10 of 21
eondekoker
in reply to: VicKosta

I have tried that and I get no warning.

For pocketing, I normally leave some material on the walls and run a
contour as final cut at full depth. I get no warning when doing that.

It I set multiple depths, it does the cut in multiple streps but the final
cut along the wall is still larger than the flute length.

Message 11 of 21
Marco.Takx
in reply to: eondekoker

Hi @eondekoker,

 

You have checked Finish only at finall depth within the Multiple Stepdown.

Turn that setting OFF so every stepdown gets also a finishing pass. 

 

Keep in mind that 2D operations don’t look at your model. They only do what you say. 

Maybe it is better to use 3D contour, but that depens on your model.

 

Maybe it is a good idea to get some training at your local reseller. 

 

If my post answers your question Please use Accept as Solution & Kudos This helps everyone find answers more quickly!

 

Met vriendelijke groet | Kind regards | Mit freundlichem Gruß

Marco Takx
CAM Consultant



Message 12 of 21
VicKosta
in reply to: eondekoker

If you run file I uploaded and set depth of cut in last setup deeper then flute length, do you get same warning shown in screenshot of my post?

I mention leaving slightly more radial stock on each new depth pass to avoid shaft rubbing against walls of previous pass, this is not possible within same operation so to achieve that,  I would have to duplicate operation several times and increase radial stock to leave by small value for each level.

This would have to be followed by contour, perhaps 2 passes, one to take out stairs and one final pass to finish size, using tool with full length of flutes.

Now if I was planning to run such job, advantage of using short flute tool would be that tool is stronger and can be driven faster then if I use full length of flutes to rough and finish.

 

In this scenario, I am planning exactly what to do and get result I expect, whether or not  Fusion will detect something out of place and display warning is besides the point, some things are simply matter of doing what we do

knowing that outcome is within desired parameters.

 

Prime example of Fusion not being any help is when I use grooving tool as turning tool, normally Fusion will turn the tool red and display message saying tool is not compatible with operation, nonsense, if I can undercut grooves with turning tool, why can't I do minor turning with rigid grooving tool?

So, I can do turning with turning tool but later change that to use grooving tool instead, even "stupid" has practical workaround so warnings built into Fusion are what they are based on someone's perception of right and wrong, not necessarily in sink with actual case in point. 

Message 13 of 21
eondekoker
in reply to: Marco.Takx

Hi

Thanks again for confirming the limitation which occurs in both 2D and 3D
machining.

If the final step is at a depth exceeding the flute length the top of the
tool will rub against the top of the wall, leaving a mark, no matter what
you do. We have a machining strategy to always have a finishing cut at full
depth, to get the best finish.

I am not looking at ways to overcome your software limitations by changing
our standard machining strategies. I am reporting the issue which caught
us by surprise and we lost the part and nearly lost the tool as well. I
merely expected this basic functionality of warning the user to be present
as this was standard with other CAM software. It helps to eliminate human
error.

I thought of using the parametric functionality to generate a warning based
on (Top_Height - Bottom_Height) > Tool_Flute_Length. But then I remembered
that the F360 parametric functions do not include the basic conditional
functions (if, when).

Please fix this as requested.
Message 14 of 21
daniel_lyall
in reply to: eondekoker


I thought of using the parametric functionality to generate a warning based
on (Top_Height - Bottom_Height) > Tool_Flute_Length. But then I remembered
that the F360 parametric functions do not include the basic conditional
functions (if, when).

Have you tried it (topHight_value - bottomHight_value) > Tool-fluteLength

 


Win10 pro | 16 GB ram | 4 GB graphics Quadro K2200 | Intel(R) 8Xeon(R) CPU E5-1620 v3 @ 3.50GHz 3.50 GHz

Daniel Lyall
The Big Boss
Mach3 User
My Websight, Daniels Wheelchair Customisations.
Facebook | Twitter | LinkedIn

Message 15 of 21
VicKosta
in reply to: daniel_lyall

I uploaded that screenshot of Fusion alerting me that I am attempting to use larger step over then flute length.

It clearly contradicts the title of the thread and I am also mentioning the fact that IF I was to run tool that way, I would have to duplicate operation few times and leave progressively more radial stock to avoid having shaft rub against the wall of previous cut.

If anything here is a bug it's the lock of ability to assign more radial stock to leave on each subsequent depth pass to avoid rubbing.

 

Message 16 of 21
Steinwerks
in reply to: VicKosta

I feel like this is an often-overlooked function of the 2D Contour toolpath:image.png

 

You can absolutely set an angle to use for shank clearance.

 

Of course I hadn't used it in so long I forgot it's basically a reverse, so you do have to set a Stock to Leave value for it to not cut into the model.

Neal Stein



New to Fusion 360 CAM? Click here for an introduction to 2D Milling, here for 2D Turning.

Find me on:
Instagram and YouTube
Message 17 of 21
eondekoker
in reply to: VicKosta

Vic, please then provide a screenshot of the warning then the Total Depth
of Cut is > Flute length and the step size is < than the flute length. That
is the main issue.
Message 18 of 21
VicKosta
in reply to: Steinwerks

In my first post with sample file, I mentioned having to use tapered walls to clear shaft.

Message 19 of 21
VicKosta
in reply to: eondekoker

In last 3 years I made a lot of parts with help of Fusion but never came across that obstacle, must be the nature of what I do or the way I do it.

Looks like I missed something in course of reading the chain of posts with no practical example in form of Fusion file, if there is a bug, is there a way around it ?

If you dig deep enough, you'll find dirt in everything, that's not my objective, I try to use working features to get things done.

Message 20 of 21
daniel_lyall
in reply to: eondekoker

can you post a file with this problem To attach a file Go to File -> Export and save as a .F3D Archive File and attach it to your next post, if you can not post the file you can PM it to me or say in your next post you can not post the file and one of the Guys that do NDA work will help.


Win10 pro | 16 GB ram | 4 GB graphics Quadro K2200 | Intel(R) 8Xeon(R) CPU E5-1620 v3 @ 3.50GHz 3.50 GHz

Daniel Lyall
The Big Boss
Mach3 User
My Websight, Daniels Wheelchair Customisations.
Facebook | Twitter | LinkedIn

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