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Issues with the new separate turning roughing and finishing strategies

HelmholtzW
Contributor

Issues with the new separate turning roughing and finishing strategies

HelmholtzW
Contributor
Contributor

With one of the recent updates the original Profile Turning strategy has been split into two new independent roughing and finishing strategies. This would have been fine if all of the options of the original strategy had been retained but that isn't what has happened. 

 

Can anyone explain why it seemed like a good idea to remove advanced lead-in and lead-out control from the new roughing strategy? 

 

From the blog press release:

Note: The old profile turning strategies are no longer visible but they can still be edited, posted and copied between files or saved and reused as templates if you’re not quite willing to let them go yet.

 

Yeah, I get it and that is what we are doing for now, but as a commercial user this is a deal breaker. The next update will probably just remove the workaround entirely. You can't just start removing features to make the software more 'simplistic'. If I needed something as simple as what this new roughing strategy generates, I already have it. It's called G71 and I can just type that in directly on the machine. 

 

The value of CAM software is that is does things that canned cycles don't. I absolutely require lead-in angle control in the roughing strategy. Fusion team, please put the advanced features back in!

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akash.kamoolkar
Autodesk
Autodesk

@HelmholtzW 

Let me first assure you that the old strategy isn't going anywhere until we are convinced 100% that users are able to achieve everything in the new strategies that they could in the old strategy and more. Having said that, the reason we started out with releasing bare bones profiling strategies is because we wanted to simplify the workflow with an interface that would allow most users to do what they need. As we come across user requirements that need additional parameters or functionality to be added, we will be adding them and your feedback towards that objective is essential to that process. So thank you for posting this comment here. We have already received a few requests to add angled entry in roughing so we will be looking into it. Towards that, could you attach a sample of what you are trying to do so we can make sure we are satisfying your particular requirement in terms of this particular feature?

 

Regards,

Akash Kamoolkar



Akash Kamoolkar
Software Development Manager
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HelmholtzW
Contributor
Contributor

My issue is that you cost me money. Autodesk is starting to manage Fusion360 like it is a Beta product. It is not. Many companies like myself rely on it to earn profit. When you starting changing menus and removing things it wastes our time.

 

The constant forced updates are bad enough. But to remove a feature because you thought nobody used it and force me to complain on a tech support forum to get it added back in is terrible customer service. 

 

Please understand that there are real world consequences for every change that you make to the software. Autodesk needs to start having some respect for it's commercial customers or you'll end up with software that is only used by 'free' hobbyists and students who are willing to put up with it. 

 

And sorry, I can't share the part files outside of my business. Again, these are real world parts not a hobby operation.

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akash.kamoolkar
Autodesk
Autodesk

@HelmholtzW 

You can put the legacy profiling strategy back on the menu by doing the following:

type cam.f in the text prompt, click enter

check the option "old-turning-profile-strategy", click close

 

Regards,

Akash Kamoolkar



Akash Kamoolkar
Software Development Manager
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Ketherton21
Collaborator
Collaborator

just wanted to post up and agree 100%

 

the new rough/finish is whack. rough seems to work just fine, but the finish toolpath looks jacked. with the old profile turning I could program profiles within a few fast clicks. now its just been convoluted. im rather surprised there aren't more posts against it. im assuming maybe the number of guys using fusion for turning is far less than milling?

 

if you want to program rough/finish in separate tool paths its still easier with the old turning profile. even with different tools.

 

all in all. I have to agree that the seemingly endless updates of changing the interface and everything leaves me pretty frustrated. if its not broken don't fix it. not to  mention we don't even have a choice but to just take the updates and like it.

 

ive taken like 6 of the courses through D3 just within the last year and every time you change things it almost makes even taking the class pointless because im spending hours re-teaching myself because it got changed. 

 

additionally, I cant make the nov 1 open forum to even try and plead my case.

 

TL;DR

 

stop automatic updates "fixing" things.

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iporter6
Advocate
Advocate

Also just wanted to add another voice of frustration to the latest turning update.  I'm a fully paying ultimate commercial user.  I also fully accept that a cloud based application means we just have to take the updates whether we want them or not.

 

I like the continuous improvement, but the last one was a peach.  I bet every single turning programmer shouted in frustration "don't they test this ******* stuff?"  Not recognising the stock is a bit of a whopper!

 

Fortunately it only took a few seconds to figure out a work round, but when you are just trying to earn a living, it really is frustrating.

 

Love the new tangent extension.  Well done.

 

 

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Anonymous
Not applicable

I can't get the new roughing strategy to do any actual roughing, and that justs OD.  I'm sure ID turning is broken again.   I'm sure those of us who actually use turning in fusion 360 are very few, or we would have had tapered threading 5 years ago.  

 

As another commercial user I don't spend nearly enough time ranting on this forum to get the changes that I want.  

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Lonnie.Cady
Advisor
Advisor

I can understand the frustration and concerns many have.  I have been a commercial user of the turning before ADSK was even in the picture.  I can say I like the fact that @akash.kamoolkar is here as a developer.  There were many many dark days where the old HSM/ADSK turning developers absolutely ignored the forums and questions.  

 

We should be grateful that we have someone willing to answer and participate in these turning discussions.  The new operations were available for testing for quit a while thru the feature flags.  This is when comments and input should have occurred.  

 

I also don't think not having lead in angles on roughing is all that uncommon.  I use a different CAM software for turning at times and it has never been available there either.

 

I know you have parts you can't share but I am sure you could make a file just for an example.  This would better give the cam team a way to make sure the satisfy your needs if they decide to make some changes.

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Lonnie.Cady
Advisor
Advisor

@Anonymous we have been using the new strategies to manufacture bearings and seals.  I am not sure what part of ID turning is broken.  Can you post an example?

 

As for cutting tapered threads, Don't really need to do it but I was under the impression it had been available for a while.  Just select a tapered face right??  I am sure I am probably missing something but would like to learn what threading issues you are facing. 

 

Untitled.png

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HelmholtzW
Contributor
Contributor

We should be grateful? What is Autodesk, like some grass roots startup? No, this is a $31 Billion dollar global company that is operating in a highly competitive marketplace. I expect software to be internally tested and fully-debugged before releasing it to commercial customers. You can't just make wholesale changes and drop them on people. Ridiculous. The only people that like cloud software are the developers.

 

While Microsoft can get away with forced updates and bugs Autodesk can't. When you cause your paying customer's downtime because you changed large amounts of the user interface under the pretext of 'improvements' you will lose them. 

 

There are many ways the new turning updates could have been rolled out to the client side without any impact on businesses. I don't have time to screw around with testing software features. But, I did have time this week to get quotes from three competing CAM packages. And you know what? When I look at how much I spent on cloud credits this year Fusion360 is not the great deal that it once was. 

 

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Lonnie.Cady
Advisor
Advisor

I said we should be grateful for Akash being willing to participate in these forums.  He offers solutions and seems to understand the challenges quiet well from the interactions I have had with him.

 

I did not say you should be grateful to Autodesk.  As far as I am concerned if the software does not fit your business then you should move on.  Tons of choices out there.

 

 

I honestly don't see your problem at this point.  All old options are available along with the new ones that were available under "beta".  Don't like the new ones use the old ones they are still accessible.  Now if the old ones were removed then I could more understand it.

 

I have pitched ideas and concerns and @akash.kamoolkar is the only one in turning that has ever shown a true interest IMO.  I won't try to defend the past as I don't think the original developers had much lathe knowledge.  I think starting from square one was the right approach while leaving the old options.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Anonymous
Not applicable

So it's not gone just hidden, and I still haven't found it.  It was removed from the turning drop down menu, and the option to restore it isn't in preferences.  To me that is gone.  Where is this "text prompt"?  

 

Am I the only one who finds it odd that we've been warned for at least a year about the big GUI update that just moved a few icons around, but I get no warning that your going to "Fix" one of the core operations of turning CAM that for me was never broken.  

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akash.kamoolkar
Autodesk
Autodesk

@Anonymous 

I don't know if you follow the forum closely but I've been mentioning the fact that we are releasing new turning strategies in a number of forum posts / replies. In addition, the turning blog mentioned this a few months ago https://www.autodesk.com/products/fusion-360/blog/turning-updates-fusion-360/

 

Anyways, to access the legacy turning strategy, you can type cam.f in the text box shown in the picture below. If it's not visible, do Ctrl-Alt-C to make it visible. Turn on the checkbox old-turn-profiling-strategy.

 

Regards,

Akash Kamoolkar

Untitled.png



Akash Kamoolkar
Software Development Manager
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seth.madore
Community Manager
Community Manager
  1. Go up to the File and turn on "Show Text Commands"
  2. Set to "Txt" (the default is "Py" I believe)
  3. type in "cam.f" in the text box and hit the enter key on the keyboard.
  4. You should now have the dialog to get the old style turning back

 

The turning CAM changes were discussed quite a bit on here and on social media. I'm sorry that you felt this was sprung on you with no warning.


Seth Madore
Customer Advocacy Manager - Manufacturing
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Lonnie.Cady
Advisor
Advisor

I believe the 4th post by @akash.kamoolkar  has the step by step directions on how to access them.  

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natecMBHZF
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

Perhaps you should sticky how to turn on the old rough/finish tool paths at the top of the forum.  I like many others are having issues with the new toolpaths, and there are a dozen or more current posts on the forums with issues tied specifically to the new tool paths.  While I appreciate you constantly trying to improve the software, it seems like it was a large oversight to move the old versions to be hidden until the bugs were worked out of the new toolpaths.  

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natecMBHZF
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

Turning on the Legacy turning is creating issues with 3d adaptive milling.  Untitled.jpg

 
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seth.madore
Community Manager
Community Manager

Can you share the file? I think this is the first time I've heard that they are linked together in any fashion...


Seth Madore
Customer Advocacy Manager - Manufacturing
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Vohnsen
Advocate
Advocate

i can also report in about the turning profile features.. very strange behavior and problems getting it to rough and finish is odd..

 

After i changed to old it worked again... thank god i dont have a business that rely on this software.. i would be very tired of it. 

 

I hope they fix it soon

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