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In Milling Setup, Origin stock box points do not update with rest machining stock.

11 REPLIES 11
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Message 1 of 12
mbrowneRV2LB
322 Views, 11 Replies

In Milling Setup, Origin stock box points do not update with rest machining stock.

Are there any plans to allow the stock box points of the rest stock to be selected for the origin when the stock is defined as " From preceding setup" and the "Continue rest machining" check box is selected? 

 

This is a really nice feature and would actually be useful if you could define origin points on material that is actually left on the part in the machine. Currently you can only select stock box points from the original stock definition even though portions of that stock are no longer there. Doesn't make much sense. I know there are plenty of work arounds updated stock models, sketch points or whatever but that's not the point.

 

-Mike

11 REPLIES 11
Message 2 of 12
kb9ydn
in reply to: mbrowneRV2LB

Seriously, this is one of those features that's so close to being awesome, but not quite.

 

C|

Message 3 of 12
jscott6SWZG
in reply to: kb9ydn

Yup irks me too

Message 4 of 12
rengfx
in reply to: mbrowneRV2LB

The stock model is just a bounded created mesh utilized by the simulation to show cuts it has no geometry, for it to be able to continually show additional box points after Setups it would need to create planes correlated to the "Stock to leave" values in whatever your machining operations in the first Setup were, that's just not feasible.. If you want to do that then just do that in the design space and designate those points as post Setup1 "Stock Box Points" with the Selected Point feature in your additional Setups as the WCS

 

I don't understand the need, if you cut a face and flip a part, just use Model Box point as it is a finished size face. I do this on nearly every setup using "Continue Rest Machining" to show my stock progressing through my setups

 

stockboxpoint.png

stockbetterangle.png

 

modelboxpoint.png

stock.png

That or create the geometry you need with offset planes in the Design workspace and reference that as additional setup(s) "Stock" box point using a selected point instead

 

Best practice in 3 axis is to use Center X Center Y and then either Top / Bottom Z, that way if your stock comes out too large / small you can quickly edit your CAM Setup1 with the dialog, and then additional setups you use cut faces as reference geometry that don't need any adjusting

 

Forcing Stock Box point beyond Setup1 will just have more downstream issues, like what if your first 6 foot bar of sawed stock is significantly different(in X Y or Z) suddenly all your downstream setups have to be modified instead of just the first

 

Again it's just a bounded mesh for the purposes of showing simulation, Fusion didn't even have rest stock in additional setups in the early years, you had to save it in each setup and then insert it into your model. God help you if you were to move your model either, now with Stock Box point in 1st Setup and Model Box points in any additional you can easily move things in the Design space and still have your CAM work..

 

Cut your reference features for future setups in Setup1 and don't rely on potentially extruded (most bar stock / sheet / plate) surfaces for references or left over stock from purposefully left stock in previous setups (again how would the software know that or deal with the logic of a potentially changeable value in subsequent setups??)

 

lowerxyz.png

If you use a part stop / fixed jaw, easily put it to a corner of your Model at a created machined reference face and boom ready to go

 

Message 5 of 12
gjemmott
in reply to: rengfx

Thanks, @rengfx for that perspective.  That's a bunch of useful information.

 

Here's a case where I still want the feature @mbrowneRV2LB describes above, but I wonder if there is a better way to do it.

 

I'm making a mounting plate whose top surface I want to be *very* parallel to the bottom surface.  One source of non-parallelism is any slight tram misalignment: when flipping the part over, it appears in the final part "doubled" because the part was flipped between machining the top and bottom sides.

 

To prevent that, when I machine the last face of this part, I bolt it down to an aluminum fixture plate that I have *just* machined flat.  Any tram misalignment appears in the fixture plate, so the top surface of my part is very, very parallel to the bottom surface, which is resting on the fixture plate.

 

So what I have been doing is:

1. Hold the part in the vise using "stock box point," I mill out the counterbores necessary to hold the part down in Setup 3, and fly-cut the top surface of the part, leaving ~0.010" stock.

2. Flip the part over, wishing I had the feature @mbrowneRV2LB described*, and machine the bottom surface very, very flat.

3. Flip it back over, bolt it down to my recently-machined fixture plate, use "model box point," and machine the top surface very, very flat.

 

You also ask, "(again how would the software know that or deal with the logic of a potentially changeable value in subsequent setups??)"

The software clearly knows about the height at which I want the origin of Setup 2 to be.  Here's a screenshot of the corner of "Setup 2," showing the origin at the "stock box point," but with "Continue Rest Machining" turned on.  You can see the dark green stock left from Setup 1, where I would like the origin, and the lighter green box, which is the "model box."  The new software feature could be called "Rest machining box" and it should just make a new box the same way it makes a "model box," but using the material left by "Rest Machining" (the dark green).

 

Screen Shot 2023-10-16 at 1.52.51 PM.png

 

That said, I bet there is a better approach I could take that would solve my particular problem with the current tools, so if you've read this far and feel like enlightening me, I'd appreciate it!  Thanks!

 

~George

 

*Because the stock left during Setup 1 makes "stock box point" too thick and "model box point" too thin. With that hypothetical feature, I could put the origin at the place on the part that I fly-cut the material down to (not as thick as the stock-box point, but thicker than the model-box point)

Message 6 of 12
gjemmott
in reply to: gjemmott

PS - I came up with a janky way to do it that I kind of like.

 

I created a parameter called "stockToLeave."  

In Setup 1, the "stock to leave" setting = stockToLeave.

For Setup 2, I construct a point to be my origin and define it as stockToLeave away below the model's corner.

 

The only disadvantage I've found so far is that constructing that origin point gets weirder if you have additional stock beyond your model in your other axes as well.  You could parameterize that additional stock, too... and construct more planes?  😕

Message 7 of 12

If youre using a fixture plate, is there a reason you don't just use the floor as your Z0....you can draw an outline on that plate as to where the part OD is and have no need to refind it everytime. Bore a center datum on your fixture and use that for x0y0 for all ops.

Please click "Accept Solution" if what I wrote solved your issue!
Message 8 of 12
gjemmott
in reply to: programming2C78B

That's exactly what I'm trying to do (use the floor of the fixture plate as Z0).   The question is how to set the origin in the second CAM setup.  If I use "stock box point," it includes material that was removed in setup 1, but if I choose "model box point" it does not include material that will be removed in setup 3.  More details above.  Thanks!

Message 9 of 12
programming2C78B
in reply to: gjemmott


@gjemmott wrote:

  If I use "stock box point," it includes material that was removed in setup 1, but if I choose "model box point" it does not include material that will be removed in setup 3.  


I dont think these are mutually exclusive. You can do stop top and model top for your toolpaths. The origin point doesn't change any of this. 

Please click "Accept Solution" if what I wrote solved your issue!
Message 10 of 12
gjemmott
in reply to: mbrowneRV2LB

I can't tell if you don't understand the question I'm asking or if I don't understand the suggestion you're making.  I'll try to ask it another way.

 

I think I understand you're suggesting I use Stock Top and Model Top as the "top" and "bottom" heights in my toolpath.  I'm already doing that.

 

I'm trying to figure out how to set the origin for CAM Setup 2.

 

If I use "stock box point" for the origin of CAM setup 2, the origin will not be on the top of the fixture plate, because the origin will be at the outside of the original stock, some of which was removed in setup 1.

 

If I use "model box point" for the origin of CAM setup 2, the origin will not be on top of the fixture plate, because the origin will be inside of the "stock to leave" from setup 1.

 

So other than constructing a point to use as the origin, which, unless I use parameters which feels janky and gets complicated if there is stock left in other axes, I don't see a way to set the origin for Setup 2 at a location that is not inside the part or inside the fixture plate.

 

Thanks for your patience!

Message 11 of 12
seth.madore
in reply to: mbrowneRV2LB


@mbrowneRV2LB wrote:

Are there any plans to allow the stock box points of the rest stock to be selected for the origin when the stock is defined as " From preceding setup" and the "Continue rest machining" check box is selected? 

 

This is a really nice feature and would actually be useful if you could define origin points on material that is actually left on the part in the machine. Currently you can only select stock box points from the original stock definition even though portions of that stock are no longer there. Doesn't make much sense. I know there are plenty of work arounds updated stock models, sketch points or whatever but that's not the point.

 

-Mike


No plans that I'm aware of, and I do agree that there is room for improvement here.


Seth Madore
Customer Advocacy Manager - Manufacturing
Message 12 of 12
programming2C78B
in reply to: gjemmott


@gjemmott wrote:

I can't tell if you don't understand the question I'm asking or if I don't understand the suggestion you're making.  I'll try to ask it another way.

 

 



I think without seeing the part itself, we're both going to make false assumptions on the other's behalf. 

Please click "Accept Solution" if what I wrote solved your issue!

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