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Guidance on 3d Adaptive for multiple parts and operations

M&GToolWorks
Advocate

Guidance on 3d Adaptive for multiple parts and operations

M&GToolWorks
Advocate
Advocate

Somewhere in the recent updates this year, fusion changed how they do stock carrying over to the next part. In the past I did not have issues with 3d Adaptive. Now it seems as though 3d Adaptive tries to mill the previous part, not recognizing the setup that it is actually in. 

 

What is weird to me, is that I can get everything to work if I have 2 parts, mill one side, flip, mill the second side. 

 

If I take those same parts, and arrange a quantity of them, 3d Adaptive tries to mill the first part, not the second part. 

 

I have not been able to find a recent video showing how to change my setups for this new way Fusion is doing things. So for those of you that machine multiple parts, through multiple operations, how are you doing this? Or what am I missing/doing wrong?

 

Simple part - 2 parts - 2 operations - Works

https://a360.co/3fe4Xpr

 

Simple Part - 12 parts - 2 operations - Does Not Work

https://a360.co/3BXPse3

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DarthBane55
Advisor
Advisor

This will not fix your problem with the 12 parts, but since you asked about how we deal with multiple parts in multiple operations...  I program just 1 part.  I built a macro that loops the code by the number of parts that I want, and increments the work offset for each part (to get a work offset for each part).  I am not suggesting doing this (intense on the post work to get the sequence efficient), but this allows to run the same code for every single part (same as sub-programs, but kind of simpler because it is self contained in 1 file).  When you edit the code, you edit once and all the parts are affected, no need to search thru the 12 parts to edit the same thing for each part.  The drawback to this is that within Fusion, you can only simulate 1 part.  Because I have an external g-code simulator, this is a non issue for me.

If you don't have external simulator, I would still program just 1 part, and use the multiple work offset function in the setup to output the code 12 times (still can only simulate 1 part in Fusion, but is that really a problem?).

I guess this would solve your current issue...  but it changes your workflow.  I'm just answering the question: "how are you doing this?", I'm not suggesting you should do the same.

Your problem still seems like a bug to me though!

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M&GToolWorks
Advocate
Advocate

How do you machine your workholding using your method? The whole concept was for me was to model the parts in each operation along with the workholding. I completely understand your point, given the parts, your solution is a viable work around. The example I posted is an over simplified part to try and convey the issue. 

 

Unfortunately I do not have a external simulator. 

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DarthBane55
Advisor
Advisor

Not sure what you mean about machining the work holding.  I machine it the same way as I machine the parts, what should be different?

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mattdlr89
Advisor
Advisor

@M&GToolWorks 

 

I am currently working on a project where I'm making 8 off the same part. This type of programming is new to me. We normally only do one at a time. So I too have been wondering the best way to set this up. 

 

I played around it a few different ways but settled on this approach.

 

1. I've modelled my fixture with all clamps etc and 8 parts modelled and 8 stocks. 

2. In my set up I just picked a single part and single stock (call it part 1 of 8). 

3. My parts were quite close together so I wanted to do an adaptive toolpath of all 8 in one go. In the geometry tab I selected model and picked the other 7 bodies (also my fixture plate to avoid any clamps etc). On the same tab I selected rest machining but picked  "from bodies" in the source drop down and selected all 8 bodies. 

4. I then programmed everything for the first part and used a pattern folder in the tree to replicate the toolpaths across the other 7 components. This means you only need to program one and not worry about the others. I used component pattern as that seemed the best way to do it imo.

mattdlr89_1-1663860690106.png

 

 

 

Doing the above way you are still able to simulate although you only see the stock for part 1. Hope this helps and interested to hear how others deal with this. 

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engineguy
Mentor
Mentor

@M&GToolWorks 

@DarthBane55 

@mattdlr89 

 

OK folks, just for fun, here is how I think it could be done, although I am making some assumptions that are explained in the Screencast link here :-  https://autode.sk/3C0VY3z

 

This setup gives you image 2This setup gives you image 2

 

Image 2 with Stock gives you image 3Image 2 with Stock gives you image 3

 

Image 3 - Cool !!Image 3 - Cool !!

 

 

Here are some images of what I ended up with and the Modified file is also attached. Each pair of a Square and a Hexagon are completed before moving on to the next pair, Screencast shows how it works, the Adaptive roughs both the Square and then the Hexagon and the Contour then finishes both, looks reasonable to me :slightly_smiling_face: :slightly_smiling_face: :slightly_smiling_face:

 

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M&GToolWorks
Advocate
Advocate
I was thinking pocketing for stock, drilling and tapping for hold downs, machining hold downs, etc. You model each for one part, then repeat for each work coordinate?
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DarthBane55
Advisor
Advisor

@M&GToolWorks wrote:
I was thinking pocketing for stock, drilling and tapping for hold downs, machining hold downs, etc. You model each for one part, then repeat for each work coordinate?

Not really no, for fixtures holding multiple parts, I usually program the entire fixture as 1 part.  So if there is 1 pocket per part in the fixture, I pick all the pockets in the operation.  But there is no involvement with 12 parts, so your problem does not occur.  I hope it makes sense or that I understood correctly your issue.

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M&GToolWorks
Advocate
Advocate
How do you handle your stock for the second side of your part?
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M&GToolWorks
Advocate
Advocate

Maybe this wasn't the best example. 

 

The issue I am having is carrying stock from the first side of the part and having Fusion recognize the stock remaining on the second side of the part. Using the methods above, I can machine the part as if it were a virgin part, but not as a carry over from the previous operation. 

 

The parts I am currently programming have 4 parts in three operations. The first "setup" machines the top side of the part, the second "setup" machines the bottom, the third stands the parts on end and profiles some details. If I model all 12 parts, and model all 12 as having a square solid of stock, the second and third operations add about 30 minutes of unnecessary machining for material that was removed previously, or machine the first setup parts instead of the correct ones. 

 

If instead I use engine guy's method, and include all 12 parts in one setup, I again get a large amount of unnecessary machine time removing material that has already been removed from previous operations. 

 

mattdlr89, can you show the results from when you select model, rest machining, and body? When I use this process, the adaptive clearing still machines the previous part and not the setup part, nor the body selected (one and the same). 

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M&GToolWorks
Advocate
Advocate

Does anyone know why reply no longer quotes the reply? It's really irritating to reply but not include the original post. 

 

What you have said makes sense. I just have to try and figure out how to make it work for the fixture and parts I am currently doing. 

 

In my "2 parts" example, Fusion carry's the stock and recognizes the previous part. For whatever reason it does not with the actual parts I am trying to program. But such is par for the course with Fusion.

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DarthBane55
Advisor
Advisor

@M&GToolWorks wrote:

Does anyone know why reply no longer quotes the reply? It's really irritating to reply but not include the original post. 

 

What you have said makes sense. I just have to try and figure out how to make it work for the fixture and parts I am currently doing. 

 

In my "2 parts" example, Fusion carry's the stock and recognizes the previous part. For whatever reason it does not with the actual parts I am trying to program. But such is par for the course with Fusion.


You need to click the " icon on the top bar to add the quote.

 

I understood you issue, but you said when you program 2 parts, the stock carries over, but not when you do 12.  That is why I suggested you program only 1 and use the function in the setup to duplicate parts.  But, to be honest, I was trying to help on a function that I don't use.  I create a file for each operation.  I save the stock as a STL in simulation and load that in the subsequent operation.  I just find this cleaner (personal taste), to keep operations in separate files, but it is more time consuming for me because the carry over stock is theoretically very helpful in saving time for the 2nd setup.  I just mostly use Inventor CAM and that function was never transferred to Inventor.  I did try this in Fusion and loved it, but that was a while ago, and since your problem is since a recent update, I did not experience it.  I was more answering the "how do you handle the multiple parts" question than solving your actual problem.

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M&GToolWorks
Advocate
Advocate

@DarthBane55 wrote:

@M&GToolWorks wrote:

Does anyone know why reply no longer quotes the reply? It's really irritating to reply but not include the original post. 

 

What you have said makes sense. I just have to try and figure out how to make it work for the fixture and parts I am currently doing. 

 

In my "2 parts" example, Fusion carry's the stock and recognizes the previous part. For whatever reason it does not with the actual parts I am trying to program. But such is par for the course with Fusion.


You need to click the " icon on the top bar to add the quote.

 

I understood you issue, but you said when you program 2 parts, the stock carries over, but not when you do 12.  That is why I suggested you program only 1 and use the function in the setup to duplicate parts.  But, to be honest, I was trying to help on a function that I don't use.  I create a file for each operation.  I save the stock as a STL in simulation and load that in the subsequent operation.  I just find this cleaner (personal taste), to keep operations in separate files, but it is more time consuming for me because the carry over stock is theoretically very helpful in saving time for the 2nd setup.  I just mostly use Inventor CAM and that function was never transferred to Inventor.  I did try this in Fusion and loved it, but that was a while ago, and since your problem is since a recent update, I did not experience it.  I was more answering the "how do you handle the multiple parts" question than solving your actual problem.


Ah ha! Thanks for explaining that. I'm on a few forums, and all of them include the quote when you reply, and I swore this one did too? 

 

I have no problem with you explaining how you do it, I appreciate that. Another method is always appreciated. 

 

I am not sure why with this particular part Fusion will not transfer stock. I have not tried the STL method, but it seems like this would be very cumbersome except once you had the programming dialed in. Every minor change seems like it would be a big hassle to make the necessary changes.

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mattdlr89
Advisor
Advisor

@M&GToolWorks wrote:

 

mattdlr89, can you show the results from when you select model, rest machining, and body? When I use this process, the adaptive clearing still machines the previous part and not the setup part, nor the body selected (one and the same). 


 

To get the stock to transfer across you need to set up your models slightly differently. Fusion can recognise stock between setups in different places if you use copies of the original component. Look at the screenshot below. Your two parts are called "Machined Part:1" &  "Machined Part(1):1". The ":1" suffix denotes that it is a instance one of that part. You'll see in the other locations you have :2 etc. You want another instance for that same part in your second set up. 

mattdlr89_0-1663915528998.png

 

 

 

I've fixed this by coping instance one and flipping it around and moving it to where the second op part sits. In the attached file it's called "Machined Part:8" and I haven't jointed it for speed but I would if I was doing it myself. Then go to your second setup model selection and select this part instead. That way stock will transfer between setups without warning and you can continue rest machining. 

 

Hope this helps 

 

mattdlr89_1-1663915552056.png

 

mattdlr89_2-1663915572704.png

 

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M&GToolWorks
Advocate
Advocate

@mattdlr89 wrote:

@M&GToolWorks wrote:

 

mattdlr89, can you show the results from when you select model, rest machining, and body? When I use this process, the adaptive clearing still machines the previous part and not the setup part, nor the body selected (one and the same). 


 

To get the stock to transfer across you need to set up your models slightly differently. Fusion can recognise stock between setups in different places if you use copies of the original component. Look at the screenshot below. Your two parts are called "Machined Part:1" &  "Machined Part(1):1". The ":1" suffix denotes that it is a instance one of that part. You'll see in the other locations you have :2 etc. You want another instance for that same part in your second set up. 

mattdlr89_0-1663915528998.png

 

 

 

I've fixed this by coping instance one and flipping it around and moving it to where the second op part sits. In the attached file it's called "Machined Part:8" and I haven't jointed it for speed but I would if I was doing it myself. Then go to your second setup model selection and select this part instead. That way stock will transfer between setups without warning and you can continue rest machining. 

 

Hope this helps 

 

mattdlr89_1-1663915552056.png

 

mattdlr89_2-1663915572704.png

 


Interesting! How do you copy the parts, other than clicking copy and paste? All of those partss are copied, so I am curious how do you copy them differently? 

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mattdlr89
Advisor
Advisor

I think maybe you derived that component in twice? That might have made them separate instances - not sure if that’s correct.

Or you can copy and “paste new” accessed from the right click menu and that will make it a separate instance. 

FYI When components have multiple instances ( :1 , :2 etc ) changes to one will update all of them. 

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M&GToolWorks
Advocate
Advocate

@mattdlr89 wrote:

I think maybe you derived that component in twice? That might have made them separate instances - not sure if that’s correct.

Or you can copy and “paste new” accessed from the right click menu and that will make it a separate instance. 

FYI When components have multiple instances ( :1 , :2 etc ) changes to one will update all of them. 


Well I think I am really confused now. Pulling up my actual part file, these parts are copied and pasted from the original part, none are derived into a new part file. However, your added parts are derived examples? So are the copy and pasted instances the issue or the derived instances? 

 

As a side note, I spent over an hour on the phone with two people from Fusion, and they could not get it to work either. 

 

I am going to play around with your example file some more and see if I can figure out what the difference might be. 

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M&GToolWorks
Advocate
Advocate

It took 45 minutes, but I created a new part file, and derived one instance of the part into the file. I then copy and pasted 7 more instances. I arranged those 8 parts using a sketch and joints to "approximate" locations for machining.

I brought in the programming from the original file and re - worked it all so that it was valid.

This file recognizes the transferred stock, showing in GREEN. When selecting the second setup's adaptive clearing it still shows the stock box around the original parts, however it TRIES to machine a part of the second setups stock, not complete, just part of. When looking at the heights tab, the boxes are shown around the first setup, not the second.

So copying and pasting from the derived part seems to work at least more than just the derived and patterned examples in the file I provided. They don't quite work completely, but it is an improvement.

 

Interestingly this part file works with 1 part (the derived part) for the first setup, and 1 part copied and pasted for the second setup, but does NOT work with 4 parts in each setup. 

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