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Can someone provide a *sample* part w/ production machining setup?

M&GToolWorks
Advocate

Can someone provide a *sample* part w/ production machining setup?

M&GToolWorks
Advocate
Advocate

I've been working for several months now, off and on, trying to get some form of workflow to WORK in Fusion for running some production parts. Autodesk tells me that billion dollar companies use Fusion every day to manufacture thousands of parts, but I cannot get anyone to explain or show me how. Every time I talk to someone, or post here on the forum I get a multitude of partial responses and lots of work arounds. 

 

A previous discussion of a similar issue can be found here, no solution was found here on the forum or by my time through a few hours and phone calls with Autodesk:

https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/fusion-360-manufacture/guidance-on-3d-adaptive-for-multiple-parts-and...

 

This is what I am asking for. I need a sample, that functions correctly, so that I can understand how I am supposed to setup a production job using Fusion. With a rectangular part I would like to see 4 setups, 4 parts in each setup. In the first setup I have 4 stock pieces modeled, as well as the 4 components. I brought in a derived part, and then copied and pasted, and jointed to each position. In the second setup, they are flipped in Z to remove the remaining stock. In the third setup they are laid on their side. In the final setup they are flipped to the opposite side. 

 

I am genuinely hoping that someone has something they can provide for two reasons. 

 

First I want to closely examine what I may be doing wrong. It is 100% possible that I have something wrong, or am not following one of Fusions esoteric, un-intuitive, "rules" that you don't know and wouldn't guess until it is a problem. 

 

Second, if it is not something I am doing wrong, I want to closely compare the correctly working part file to see if I can figure out WHY my parts are not working, and have a good basis to try and help make an Autodesk employee understand that there IS A PROBLEM. Hopefully. 

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dwilliamsFM6K4
Advocate
Advocate

I don't know how anyone can "do" this for you

 

There's multiple ways to skin a cat, everyone is going to do it differently

 

which parts of your workflow are you having trouble with , and how can we help you address them? What past CAM systems do you have experience using, and what specific problems with Fusion 'workflow' are you trying to correct

 

Overall I would say your desire to have a certain # of setups and represented parts via copy pasting / jointing is already not something I would do, rather multiple work offsets / patterns

 

There's not nearly enough information here to begin assisting you, if you can provide part files / pictures that would give a much better frame of reference

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M&GToolWorks
Advocate
Advocate

@dwilliamsFM6K4 wrote:

I don't know how anyone can "do" this for you

 

There's multiple ways to skin a cat, everyone is going to do it differently

 

which parts of your workflow are you having trouble with , and how can we help you address them? What past CAM systems do you have experience using, and what specific problems with Fusion 'workflow' are you trying to correct

 

Overall I would say your desire to have a certain # of setups and represented parts via copy pasting / jointing is already not something I would do, rather multiple work offsets / patterns

 

There's not nearly enough information here to begin assisting you, if you can provide part files / pictures that would give a much better frame of reference


As I said, ask 10 machinists and you will get 14 different answers. Everyone does things differently. What I am doing does not work, but Autodesk doesn't know why and they can't seem to tell me the correct way. The way I am doing it is based off of Autodesk documentation and video's on YouTube. 

 

If you take a look at the linked thread, you can see a few of the issues represented with example parts, as well as discussions trying to remedy/work around. I've already spent several hours and several phone calls with Autodesk, it isn't so much that I am trying to get assistance with my parts specifically, because Autodesk can't figure out why they don't work, I am trying to see a *working* setup in hopes that I can find out a way that works or sometimes just seeing a different way helps to get a better idea.

 

I used AutoCAD for about 2 years, took Solidworks and MasterCam in engineering, then spent about 6 years using Solidworks/MasterCam/HSMWorks before starting on Fusion in 2016, which I have been using since. 

 

In Short

If I take 1 part, flip it, do 5, 6, 9 different setups and wcs, the machining and stock works. 

 

If I take multiples of a part the stock and the wcs do not recognize the selected components. It does not appear to matter if I use a derived part, or the original part. It does not appear to matter if I use copy paste, or pattern, though copy paste seems to have less issues. (see above discussion)

 

Due to customer requirements and NDA I cannot share parts, but I provided samples that shows the basic problems in the link above. 

 

Video's like these are helpful, but they really don't go into multiple parts, multiple setups/wcs, all on one fixture. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOJlBeE808E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWgC0GoB15M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOJlBeE808E

 

Maybe there is a video out there showing exactly what I need and I cannot find it on YouTube. Somewhere there may be a Autodesk example from a class that shows how to do this and what the workflow is supposed to look like. I've looked through all the CAM Samples and Workshops & Events looking for a sample that works.

 

With the supposed millions of customers using Fusion, someone, somewhere, has to have a similar setup and part configuration that works that they are willing to show the workflow and how to set it up. 

 

 

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M&GToolWorks
Advocate
Advocate

In fact, everyone can access an example. For whatever reason, Fusion will not let me share a link, but if you look at the bottom of the "Project List" under Samples, you will find Workshops & Events, Education, IMTS 2022, you will find TM-0 CAM ASSM_Current. 

 

If you take a look in Manufacturing, Setup - Vise 4 Second Op, and open the setup, change the Stock Mode "From Solid" to "From Proceeding Setup". Regenerate the setup and take a look at the issues. Can you make stock from proceeding setup work? Can you make the adaptive clearing work? Can you get the adaptive clearing to recognize the components selected and not the proceeding setup? 

 

It looks like they have derived, copied and pasted components. Should this be done differently? If so, how? 

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dwilliamsFM6K4
Advocate
Advocate

That is not a good example, this file and these particular parts (Thumb Screws) have associated bodies selected as the stock that exist within the Design workspace. Why one would "break" this working setup just to test something out or try preceding stock won't necessarily work. When I open the file, yes things work, in order to leverage 'preceding stock' you cannot have your components in different locations (see attached picture). While this sample is A way to do it, it certainly is not the only way

misplaced.jpg

stockwronglyplaced.jpg

 

There is a way to do this, with working preceding stock. I do it all the time, but you cannot have the stock in a different location than the part, by making copies / deriving the parts and laying them out in that manner, whomever programmed this sample became beholden to needing to have the stock 'travel' with each setup

 

I'd be happy to work with you on a screencast / voice chat to work through your parts and get a working workflow going with you, but it would be most applicable to work directly from scratch either with dummy parts with your NDA issues or the real parts

 

 

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dwilliamsFM6K4
Advocate
Advocate

The text answer of what you could do here to get preceding stock rest material to work, is

 

Insert your workholding into the same SINGLE COMPONENT part file, orienting it how it needs to hold it for each setup. So you'd essentially in your example, have a single part and then 4 vises around it

 

Your CAM Setup you'll select the fixture for each particular setup related to what workholding you need, then use Preceding Stock rest material checked in subsequent setups. Your part never moves, you never have to translate or copy / paste or track this. Use NC Programs posting dialog to post out each setup optimizing for minimizing tool changes, posting as many concurrent setups as you want like the Fusion 360 Sample had 4 vises on the table, and you can definitely run 'production' like this

 

If you want multiple parts, I find multiple work offsets to be best. Your toolpath calculation time / simulation watching time will only have to deal with single part, all parts will come out exact, unless a tool breaks etc (can do checks on that too if you want)

 

But you have a choice, can rely on modeling everything, aligning, translating, rotating to visually represent ALL of your 4 setups simultaneously, or use single part location instead orienting the workholding with preceeding stock, but yes these options are within themselves nearly fully INcompatible with each other

 

Happy to help talk you through this on like a video call or something as well, lmk

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seth.madore
Community Manager
Community Manager

I've not yet read up on the other thread you posted in, but I will warn you; multiple components/bodies and "Stock > From Preceding" does not work in many cases. I find that when dealing with multiples, it's often better to model out some bodies to use as Stock and select those when needed.


Seth Madore
Customer Advocacy Manager - Manufacturing
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tylercurtis37
Explorer
Explorer

Check out https://academy.titansofcnc.com/ .  Its free to sign up and has a bunch of part tutorials videos/setup sheets and part files.

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