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2D Adaptive toolpath doing weird movements

HRTFAB
Enthusiast

2D Adaptive toolpath doing weird movements

HRTFAB
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

Hi Guys, So Im making this wrench and everything works but the 2D Adaptive strategy is doing something very odd. Instead of making smooth arcs, the post seems to be making straight x y moves and LOTS of them! which takes forever. Every other toolpath in the attatched f3d. file works fine, just the adaptive is doing this, has anyone seen this before, i use 2D adaptive all the time and i have never seen it do this, the weird thing is it doesnt show what its doing on the simulation, it looks normal in the simulation, but on the mill every move is very short and jerky movements, its like the post is all made with straight lines instead of arcs, any ides?

Thanks in advance you guys are always very helpful,

Danile

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HRTFAB
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

i thought it might be helpful to add a video so you can see what the toolpath is doing exactly.

[video]

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martin.dunschen
Autodesk
Autodesk

Hi @HRTFAB

 

Thanks for sharing your design. I had a look at the 2D Adaptive toolpath itself, and can't see what might be wrong, it all looks good. Perhaps you could post the postprocessed file here and somebody with more knowledge of machine code can spot a problem? Perhaps also post some information about which post processor / controller configuration you are using.

 

Martin 

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Steinwerks
Mentor
Mentor

To echo @martin.dunschen's request: what machine and control is this? This looks like a classic case of data starvation in which the control cannot keep up with the quantity of blocks it needs to process, so the machine stutters through the toolpath. There may be settings to help mitigate this issue but they will be control dependent if they are available.

Neal Stein

New to Fusion 360 CAM? Click here for an introduction to 2D Milling, here for 2D Turning.

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HRTFAB
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

 @martin.dunschen the controller runs on Mach 3

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HRTFAB
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

@Steinwerks the mill is a Bridgeport btc 1 with the controller retrofitted to gecko drives and mach 3 for the control, it has always worked very well with fusion adaptive strategies like this, but it sounds like Mach is struggling to process the data quick enough? What could cause this all of a sudden?

 

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HRTFAB
Enthusiast
Enthusiast
Accepted solution

ok i figured it out it was my controller, mach 3 somehow got put into exact stop mode instead of cv mode, the more i play with fusion 360 the more i trust the software and the less i trust my machine... I need a HAAS!

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Steinwerks
Mentor
Mentor

Personally - as someone who runs a Haas every day - I'd be looking at a Doosan Smiley Wink

 

Glad you got it figured out!

Neal Stein

New to Fusion 360 CAM? Click here for an introduction to 2D Milling, here for 2D Turning.

Find me on:
Instagram and YouTube
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HRTFAB
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

@Steinwerks  im curious what do you like more about the Doosan?  Ive read some interesting things about them they sound like very accurate very rigid machines , but i dont know anything about fanuc controls. What do you think about the hardinge/Brideport or HAAS VM models xs models?  

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Steinwerks
Mentor
Mentor

IMO Haas is a very non-rigid machine for the work envelope, and I am certainly not alone in this opinion. The iron castings on the Doosan lines are much beefier (you can verify this with machine weights although that's never the whole story). This translates to better removal rates per tool, better tool life, and better finishes. Compound that with competitive pricing from most of the Korean and Taiwan lines these days and Haas doesn't (again, my opinion) have the value as commodity machines they once did.

 

They are very good at marketing though, so they are all over Instagram.

 

My .02: if you want fast and have smaller envelope requirements, go with Brother. If you do a lot of varied workpiece sizes and materials and need the travel and heft, go with Doosan, or alternatively at least compare with other MTB's like Hyundia-Wia, Samsung, etc. If you want budget top-quality, go with Okuma Genos, the M560-V is a crazily good deal for the money.

 

IMTS is in Chicago this year, and there are tons of stories of deals to be had, including free probing packages (Haas does have an advantage here with the cheapest probing available due to whatever deals they have going with Renishaw), tooling packages, memory upgrades, etc.

 

Edit: and don't buy a machine because you like the control! Buy the machine that meets your use-case, and learn the control. When you have a shop-full of Mitsubishi or Okuma OSP controls... then it's time to worry about knowing you can move programs in between them, but a first machine should be the one that gets you the best performance for your needs. Controls are easy in the long run.

Neal Stein

New to Fusion 360 CAM? Click here for an introduction to 2D Milling, here for 2D Turning.

Find me on:
Instagram and YouTube
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HRTFAB
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

@Steinwerks thanks for your insight i really appreciate it, im curious does your HAAS VF machines have problems holding tight tolerances at the end of their work envelopes as a result of their light frames, do the tolerances vary as you near the end of the work envelope and then get better the closer to center you gert, just curious? Or is it more of the isssue of rigidity like you said and not being able to take as aggressive of cuts and maximize tool life? The Doosans do look like a good bang for buck.  The brothers machines are really interesting, I saw a horizontal one with a robotic arm for a tool changer i thought that was interesting, i dont think they're work envelopes are big enough for the variety that i do though. 

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Steinwerks
Mentor
Mentor

We are able to hold any tolerances that are needed, I would say holding a few tenths is not problematic but the machine deflects more than others I have used, and yes, mainly roughing capabilities are compromised IMO.

 

A few notes on the Haas spindle: depending on who you talk to the highest torque in the spindle range (12k direct drive) is at 2000 RPM. This sucks because there are almost no tools I'm going to be running at 2k RPM that need high torque. If I want to use a spade drill an inch or larger diameter in steel, it's going to be running maybe a third of that speed, and I have gone over 150% spindle alarmed out the machine and had to back the feed down to complete the job. I have resorted to smaller drills and following up with milling operations, but this only really works because I don't need to drill very deep.

 

They do not offer a dual contact version, which is a big drawback on a noodly machine. Dual contact should be standard at this point IMO, as it's not as if one has to use dual-contact holders for them.

 

The gap between the spindle taper nose and the holder flange is noticeably larger than on other brands. I don't know why this is but to me it's indicative of another potential source of rigidity drawbacks.

 

The insulting term regarding the vector drive is it's a 30 "Haaspower" unit Smiley LOL

 

I don't really want to jump on them too hard, I don't think they are an unviable product or even 'bad,' just that there are potentially better options in the same price range that may provide better ROI in the same time period. After that of course it's more profit, right?

Neal Stein

New to Fusion 360 CAM? Click here for an introduction to 2D Milling, here for 2D Turning.

Find me on:
Instagram and YouTube
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HRTFAB
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

wow thats really interesting @Steinwerks, thanks for the advice, i will definitely take that into consideration when I go to buy my next machine. And I totally agree, time is money so if a Doosan is in the same price range but can reduce roughing times by being able to increase the MMR and save on tool costs in the long run, than its probably worth it. 

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