Turning WCS Default

[VPM360]

Just though I would try and get some discussion on the topic of the default settings for the WCS when turning. I have been burned twice now, because I forgot to change the WCS to "Model Front" when the default is "Stock Front". I could be wrong, but it would seam that maybe the default should be the model. Not the stock. So does any one know how to save the setup so that it defaults to my specified parameters, rather than going back to the software defaults. It is a small thing, but miss that just once and it can be, as it was for me, the difference between a good part and putting the turret into the jaws. 

[Anonymous]

I have never programmed a single job in Fusion, Mastercam, Surfcam, Gibbs, or any other software with WCS set to stock face.

I don't know where these defaults originated from but I am sure experience has nothing to do with it.

Default should be model face, that is Z0 when you post the file, any stock on positive side is facing stock.

If you set stock face as origin, your Z0 is in the air in front of the part and you must account for it when measuring any depth from face of machined part in process of setting up machine and comparing that value to one in program.

You can make a part if you put origin in the middle of it or anywhere else in work envelop of the machine but established practice is to put it on face of finished part.

In some cases people put it on back face and all Z coordinates are on plus side, some arguments are made in favor of that when doing bar stock work which basically comes down to preferred "logic" of making one thing top priority that results in another thing being PITA, just my few cents.

[akash.kamoolkar]

@Anonymous @VPM360 

i'll create a ticket to make the model face the default WCS origin for turning and run it by a few people for a sanity check.

Regards,

Akash Kamoolkar

[Anonymous]

Could you also take out "Use constant surface speed" out of threading as default setting ,..... please, been there for years now and has no purpose, threading is done with G97, constant speed.

[mathew.hutton]

Hi @VPM360 

Yes i agree with this. As a machinist, i always datum off the model as something i like about this is that all your coordinates are then aligned with the model i.e. if your turning a diameter that is 60mm in length, you can check your coordinates and distances to go on the controller and it makes it easier to know where you are when running the machine.

The other method of having stock front selected, this makes it more complicated and easily throws you off if your tired or distracted and see that the coordinates are making your tool go deeper on lengths than anticipated, but then you realise you have a 0.5mm or 2mm offset on the front of the model... Makes you have unnecessary mini heart attacks, especially in your case when you end up clouting the chuck!

Looks like @akash.kamoolkar will log this as an improvement anyway so hopefully this gets sorted soon

Mat

[akash.kamoolkar]

I'll make a ticket for this.

Regards,

Akash Kamoolkar

[zwelsh91]

I will agree with @Anonymous on this one that there are many ways to set your origin. I am one of those that likes to treat my lathe like a mill ant set the Z-Zero at the face of the chuck or chuck jaws and define a set pull out length. The fact of the mater is that origins are a variable controlled by the end user and the trick is to come up with a process and stick to it. If that process is to set your origin to the face of your material and not your part face, then do that every time. Train yourself to do it the same way every time. as an example: every time you create a new setup make it a point to carefully go through all the settings and verify that all is the way you want it. the trick to programming is Check, Check and Double Check Everything. We all wish that software could totally automate the process but the cold facts are that with the variety of parts and components that we all make on a daily basis it makes automation nearly impossible. being that there is no context fo AI and there are physical variables that software just does not have the ability to see yet.

[VPM360]

I am excited to have gotten so much chatter so quickly. I am one of those who always uses the model face as my Z-Zero point as @Anonymous concurs with. I have no problem if others want to use a different datum to work off of, but being able to save the setup data, so that I don't have to constantly change that piece which seams to be easy to overlook even when checking , checking, double checking. Thanks @akash.kamoolkar for taking this and running with it to make a solution.

[Anonymous]

I do mixed bag of work so I can't have one standard for bar stock and another for slugs, I can see benefit of adopting certain rule if one does majority of work in same area and as you say ... "sticks to it".

Fact is that vast majority of work I have done in many years past are done by majority of people and shops in same or similar way, so that sets the "standard" most often used and it turns out to be that face of finished part or model in software is set as WCS. 

Not only that I have never set it to stock face, I have never seen anyone do that in shops I worked at.

Associating print dimensions with programmed coordinates is difficult if you deliberately put them out of coordination.

[nick_p3dcreations]

my $0.02 on this:
Rather than change the defaults (Since we are machinists and by definition all have our own way of doing things), it would be great to just make them user-configurable. Maybe a right-click menu like the text fields have? 

Personally I always use the chuck face as Z0. If my coordinates are positive, I'm good to go. If they're negative, I'm going to have a bad time. I do a lot of prototyping so by not resetting my origin all day every day it reduces my chance of error and my setup time substantially. 
G54 is hard jaw face, G55 is 1.5" softjaw face, G56 is 2" softjaw face, G57 is collet chuck face, and G58 and G59 are spares for odd parts.

Another option (which I have adopted and LOVE) is to use Rob Lockwood's "container" programming method inside of premade lathe templates. You can store your favorite origin location in the setups and with careful setup of joints, chuck models, parameters, and toolpaths you can have a part 75% programmed almost immediately- Just needing some fine-tuning or additions for more complex parts. Link to the AU class here: https://www.autodesk.com/autodesk-university/class/Better-Toolpaths-Make-Better-Parts-Rob-Lockwood-2...

[Anonymous]

Well, this is going to be another can of warms because there is no wrong way to do anything if it works and has certain advantage in user's perspective. We have "user configurable option" now and it happens to default to choice not favoring most commonly used method.

There are as many definitions of "right and wrong" as there are machinists but if you put it to vote, I bet most would like to see model face on top, some will object and few wouldn't know why do it one way or another.

Selecting few options in setup for every job is not that big of a deal but I think in favor of consistency, we should have a way to set out own defaults, so I will set my preferences and anyone else can set theirs.

If there is a way to do that right now, I am not aware of it, digging thru skeleton of software to access some option berried behind 5 screens is not very user friendly so I think Fusion needs to reevaluate its layout and give users more flexibility in setting default options that suit many ways of "right and wrong" without having to commit to any option as default.

[VPM360]

Hi there @akash.kamoolkar, do you have a ticket number for this?

Thanks

[daniel.pacific]

As an FYI to everyone in this thread, you can set your own defaults. Right click in any input box on the set-up dialogue and hit 'Make All Default

[Innov8cnc]

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@daniel.pacific wrote:

As an FYI to everyone in this thread, you can set your own defaults. Right click in any input box on the set-up dialogue and hit 'Make All Default

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Works a treat thanks