Free Fusion 360 and 4th axis (in year 2020)

[Anonymous]

Hi!

I have just started to listen F360 teaching videos and would like to get some answers before spending lots of time with them and learning F360, so please help. 

I need to be able to machine for instance table wood legs and round sculptures so it would be essential to have all the common 4th axis features available. So, the question is, does the free F360 support full rotational 4-axis operations? Also are there perhaps some other limitations not mentioned except the limited access to file formats for import?

(I'm an old retired engineer and to have a hobby to keep the grey brain cells working and the Alzheimer guy at distance I purchased an old 3-axis desktop CNC machine w/ Mach3 and a spare servo for the 4th axis (to be built). The software are 10+ year old licenses for Solidworks, Rhinoceros 4/5 with RhinoCam Pro (ver 2, I think)  with 4 axis and RhinoArt. The workflow with these fellows feels so clumsy that I went for the free F360 license hoping for a miracle.)  

Thanks!

[johnswetz1982]

"does the free F360 support full rotational 4-axis operations?"

If you want this you would have to look into the paid extensions, however it will do positional 3+2 fine.

[Mattxer · Accepted solution]

Yeah, there is actually a new preview operation called Rotary which would be perfect for that, but it is part of the extension which does cost 125 cloud credits per month. Although if you don't need it for a particular month you don't need to pay for it. There is a Wrap operation too that might work. 

Documentation:

https://help.autodesk.com/view/fusion360/ENU/?guid=Fusion_CAM_how_to_multi_axis_multi_axis_rotary_ht...

https://help.autodesk.com/view/fusion360/ENU/?guid=GUID-7FF25192-AED7-4230-92DC-E22ADF15D498

[Anonymous]

Cloud credits? Have to check what that is too.

Ok, it seems that I will stick with the old programs then until I understand better what I actually need and what that would cost. 

Thanks to both of you!

[ruedorb]

I am also a hobbyist  with a garage 4 axis mill. Too bad autodesk is pulling away features from us. I thought the idea was supposed to be to encourage self education while we are on our way to turning hobbies into a potential business down the road! Now I will have to learn some other softare to pursue that dream 😞

[lodeKYAQ8]

Same here... I bought a 1-year subscription to fusion hoping on decent 4-axis support for my XYZA only to find out that rotary is actually only available through extensions...

[seth.madore]

Wrap 2D Contour, Pocket and Adaptive are available in the Educational and Commercial versions of Fusion, as is 3+1 (Tool Orientation). Anything with greater control (Rotary, for example) is an Extension item.

[lodeKYAQ8]

Thanks Seth, that's indeed what I came to understand after moving from personal use to commercial.
It will now be for me to find out if the functionality added by moving to the commercial license justifies the cost. buying the extension only to have basic rotary support is definetly not an option.

Anyhow, I need to find out to what extend I can use the 4th axis of my machine from fusion. Part of it can be to see if/how I can create toolpaths for parts like shown in the screencapture (3M-100-12 pulley), where most of the stock preparation is done on a lathe, only leaving the cutting of the teeth to be done on a CNC mill. The geometry clearly points in the direction of a 4th axis...  

If you would have any suggestions on how to approach this within the limitations of the basic commercial license, that would be very much appreciated. Flanges can be omitted (added later on).
One of the possible solutons I already have working is creating two halves (cut radially), which needs no 4th axis at all. 

Thanks,

Lode 

 

[seth.madore]

In cases such as this, the flanges are typically pressed/welded on afterwards. Otherwise, any tool you bring into it would leave a fillet at the ends.

For this part, assuming the flange isn't there, there are two approaches I would take:

1) Use a Ball Endmill, position above the part, center of X. Cut each tooth, rotating the A axis for each new tooth

2) Use a full radius Key Cutter, approach the part from the negative Y position, cutter placed right at the equator

In both instances, all you need to do is program up one instance of the tooth and put that into a Pattern > Rotation and state the amount of instances to rotate. Rotary Toolpath is not required for this

[lodeKYAQ8]

Hi Seth,

Makes sense. Maybe some extra background and probably part of the reason for the 'frustration/disappointment' wrt to buying the commercial license and finding the seemingly obvious stuff hidden in additional extensions: Until now I have been writing g-code myself (and in some cases even just driving the steppers on step level) whenever I 'needed' my 4th axis (and I did cut some other gears that way). But as I am moving into more complex designs - for which I really enjoy fusion - I also want to step away from that low-level approach and fully use the capabilities of the tool. And the case of the 3m pulleys was a good test case, as I wanted to start from components that I downloaded from the supplier's website, not creating the model / toolpaths myself this time.

And that's where it is starting to become clear that I still need to learn to think within the paradigm of the provided material removal strategies. And yes, most of them are far more performant than whatever I am able to achieve by crafting some g-code statements together once the complexity of the parts get beyond basic geometric shapes and/or surfaces that can be mathematically parameterized fairly easily. But for these simple geometries and easily parameterizeable surfaces, I often feel forced into overly complex approaches, defintely also because of my ignorance on fusion and its possibilities...

There is still al lot to discover... 😉   

Now practically, I still miss something related to : "In both instances, all you need to do is program up one instance of the tooth and put that into a Pattern > Rotation and state the amount of instances to rotate. Rotary Toolpath is not required for this"
==> I know how to us pattern on sketch level, as wel as on object level in design, but how does this translate into A axis movements in manufacture? 

[johnswetz1982]

On the CAM/Manufacture side, once you do a setup any operations with [Tool Orientation] look at the difference between Z+ for the initial setup and Z+ for the operation. Fusion figures out that difference and outputs the axis movement required. 

Example: Initial setup with no [Tool Orientation] is A=0.0 and the 3 follow up operations that are patterned put out, A=90.0, A=180.0, A=270.0

Left side

Top

In this last example, initial setup would be a blue arrow pointing to the left (Z up) while this operation is tilted at 45 degrees so Fusion knows to put out B=45.0 for this operation.  

[seth.madore]

And here is a sample of Patterns in the Manufacture environment:

 

[lodeKYAQ8]

Thanks  a lot Seth and John! 

That opens a lot of possibilities!