Changing spindle axis and tool orientation

[r6russian]

Hello all

first time poster here, been using fusion for about a year to program haas and fadal VMCs and working on expanding it thru more of my shop at work. Having a hell of a time figuring out how to change the spindle axis in fusion.

Machine in question is an Asquith Butler powercenter, fixed table, traveling column 3+2 mill with a heidenhain 426 control. Axes are turned on it, long ways on the table is X, column up and down is Y and ram in and out is Z. Its like you took a regular VMC and tipped it over on its face, that's the axes orientation but i doubt it really matters since there's not just one spindle axis like there is on a regular VMC. I can approach my workpiece in X+, X-, Y+, Y- and Z-. Spindle axis on a heidenhain is defined in the tool call line "13 TOOL CALL 2 Z S1000" and on my machine it can be X Y or Z or multiple combinations of all 3 depending on the part and the work it gets

A sample part I drew up real quick, I would mill the pocket on the face with spindle in Z, working in Z-, drill the 1 hole on top with spindle in Y working in Y- and drill the grid of holes on the right face with the spindle in X, working in X-

Problem i have is not being able to change the spindle axis in fusion from anything other than Z.  There's nothing in machine definition that looks like it. Only thing I'm finding that looks like it would work is in tool orientation, the bottom 2 options: surface normal and X, surface normal and Y. My fusion doesn't have those in the tool orientation dropdown, and the other options are useless.

What is machining extension? I feel like I'm either trying to invent a new round wheel or missing something stupid and simple. 

I found this thread from 2 years ago where a guy had a similar issue but with a dual spindle machine. Solution they came up with was to always program in Z and write a post to swap it to Y when he needed the other spindle. This wont work in my setup since we're always working in all 5 axes, all the tool lengths are preset with a second set of tools in the tool chart (tools 101-140) with opposite lengths from the actual tools (1-40) for when we work in X+, and if you're familiar with heidenhain cycle defs and "first axis" and "second axis", you cant just change spindle axis in the tool call, every 1st and 2nd axis in every cycle def in that program follows after the spindle axis (if spindle is Y, 1st is Z and 2nd is X. if spindle is in Z, first is X, 2nd is Y, etc) so we cant just swap 1 letter in the program and send it, that would create impossible problems to solve, if it would even run

As far as the post itself, the generic 426 post that comes with fusion looks like it will run just fine, the code looks identical to what we fingercam on the control, we're just limited to only using Z for the spindle axis, so IMO its a fusion issue, not a post issue.

thanks in advance

-Roman

[johnswetz1982]

Did you try first moving your work offset in Fusion to be in the center of the top hole on the model pictured rather than on its corner?

[r6russian]

That wouldnt change anything because i still cant make my spindle axis anything other than Z. 

[johnswetz1982]

What you are describing just sounds like a typical horizontal mill arraignment. How is it different? You say that the spindle can approach from several different directions so I am not sure what you mean. I would think you mean that the table could index and rotate about Y but not sure what you actually mean.

[r6russian]

The machine is built somewhat like a horizontal, but with a 5 axis head that can swing around B and C axis, you can see in the pictures, so its a universal machining center vs a horizontal or a vertical. I dont have a single spindle axis because i can turn the head any which way (within machine limitations) and make that my spindle axis, but fusion makes Z my spindle axis by default, I cant change it and thats where my problem is. 

I think im missing some crutial piece of information in my explanations but im doing the best i can articulate. Imagine a right angle head on a typical VMC, with the tool pointed in X+ and running in G19 YZ plane . For a drilling cycle your tool would be in X instead of Z, you would program an X depth instead of a Z depth like a typical G17 XY plane program. The tool is normal to the YZ plane, tool axis being X. 

This is what we do on this machine. We set the tool axis in the tool call, index the machine head to match the tool axis and do all the work with the tool in that axis, then index the head to a different axis, rinse and repeat. 

For all intents and purposes, this mill only indexes the head along the cartesian axes. So i can only work in X,Y, or Z. In reality i can index the head 2.5deg a hit and machine normal to it, but them are future me problems. 

At the end of the day, i need to be able to set my spindle axis to any of the 3 cartesian axes, not just Z. And thats where my problems start in fusion

[johnswetz1982]

Your pictures are not showing. I dont know how it would work specifically for your machine based on the post, but What controls what you are talking about is the difference between the setup orientation (like you have) and the tool orientation per operation. So what your calling a spindle in the X+ direction is still actually Z in the G code but the difference between the setup orientation and the operation orientation tells the head how to move. Whatever direction the spindle is in line with is always Z and the other planes just do a coordinate system transform for whatever angle you are changing. 

I believe your machine is what is called a "head-Head" machine. 

You may be over complicating this unless you have some super unique machine but do you have example code where you would be machining the two "sides" of the cube if you start out with Z at the "face/front" of the cube? I have only seen one example of what you are implying with some Deckel machines that can switch between vertical and horizontal with the horizontal orientation keeping the axis naming from the vertical portion so that drilling moves would need to be output with Y instead of Z but that is a weirdo machine.

[r6russian]

What you said about a deckel is exactly what this does. All the axes stay the same, but as i index the head from Z to X to Y, the output changes to those axes. I can grab some examples of code at work monday, but just like a regular VMC drilling cycle, positioning in X and Y and plunging in Z, I would do the same if working in Z. Then spin the head around to work in X, i'd position in Y and Z and plunge in X. Same for working in Y, position in X and Z, plunge in Y. 

Heres a couple pictures of the machine and the head setup. Top one with the long stick in the spindle pointing across the table is the spindle in Z. Second picture with the spindle turned down towards the table is spindle in Y. I dont have a pic but with spindle turned parallel to the table is spindle X. 

Since probably 90% of our machining work happens in the cartesian axes, we switch the spindle axis in the tool call line 

TOOL CALL 1 Z S5000

and index the head to match that axis. Then we position in the other 2 axes and work in the spindle axis. This works very well, easy and quick to program at the control and axes always stay the same, long ways along the table is X, column up and down is Y and ram in and out is Z. 

Now, theres a whole other option with this machine and control, 3d rotate.  This rotates the axes to whatever angle you need them to be. This is on top of the spindle axis and physically indexing the head. Its nothing like a G68 rotation, once you set your angle of coordinate system rotation, all the axes become something else. For example if you push X+ jog button, the head might move in what used to be Z+, or Y- might move in what normally is X+. Only consistent theme with 3d rotate, is whatever spindle axis is in your tool call, - direction in that axis is the working direction (as in, plunging direction for a drill). But the rest of the axes move around every which way. We dont use 3d rotate unless we have to machine at some angle not along one of the axes and theres always some experimentation to see which axis became what. I guess i could try using tool orientation to move the Z around in fusion, combined with using Z spindle axis and 3d rotate to rotate the coordinate system around instead of just working in any of the 3 axes. I just have no idea how to modify the post to physically index the head, whereas with switching spindle axes it should be pretty easy to program head indexing based on the tool axis and whether its plunging in + or - direction.

[daniel_lyall]

I think this is one where you are going to need to get someone in who can setup the pp for you are and work out how to do the cam in fusion.