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Library packages becoming corrupted

11 REPLIES 11
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Message 1 of 12
crefvem
304 Views, 11 Replies

Library packages becoming corrupted

Every so often, roughly every hour or couple hours of work, packages in my custom libraries become corrupted. For example, in the image below you can see that a custom connector package I've created is oriented and located incorrectly.

crefvem_0-1694725527059.png

 

I have determined how to fix the problem:

  1. Reopen the library
  2. Open the corrupted package
  3. Open the joint dialog used to orient and locate the part, then accept the dialog closing it
  4. Save the package
  5. Save the library.
  6. Update the library in the board editor.

The component will then correct itself on the 3D view of the PCB.

crefvem_1-1694725772603.png

 

On a few occasions while fixing this problem I've noticed that the joint shows missing references, but that isn't usually the case.

 

I'm sure that this is some kind of bug, as the behavior is not at all how it should work. However, I'm also curious if there is a better workflow than using the joint tool to orient and position the components on their footprints.

11 REPLIES 11
Message 2 of 12
crefvem
in reply to: crefvem

I'm not certain, but I'm pretty sure that the problem is related to copying and pasting components within the schematic editor.

Message 3 of 12
jorge_garcia2
in reply to: crefvem

Hi @crefvem,

 

I hope you're doing well. In all documented workflows involving the library joints are not used.

 

I have a feeling the joints are involved. Why are you using joints when placing 3D models inside the package editor of the library? I want to know because there may be a legitimate use case for them. In any case I'm going to pass this along to the developers.

 

Let me know if there's anything else I can do for you.

 

Best Regards,



Jorge Garcia
​Product Support Specialist for Fusion 360 and EAGLE

Kudos are much appreciated if the information I have shared is helpful to you and/or others.

Did this resolve your issue? Please accept it "As a Solution" so others may benefit from it.
Message 4 of 12
crefvem
in reply to: crefvem

I've been doing it this way for a while, so it's a bit tricky to remember exactly why I started to use the joint tool. Thinking back, I believe it was actually to address a similar version of the problem in this post.

 

Here is my general procedure for making custom libraries for my own personal use.

  1. If possible, I like to locate libraries online for the parts I'm interested in, often through SnapEDA or Ultra Librarian. These libraries never come with the packages because the ".flbr" and ".lbr" formats don't include the 3D assets.
  2. If I can't find a library, I'll make the symbol, footprint, and component manually.
  3. I then try to locate a STEP model of the physical package so I don't have to do the modeling myself for complex geometries.
  4. Within the library editor I right click on the new footprint and choose the "Create new 3D model" option. I will then save the empty 3D model in a known location.
  5. Then I will temporarily open/upload the STEP model I found and do the following.
    1. Create a single component that is parent to all other components or bodies generated from the step.
    2. Use a rigid group to make everything stay together as one piece.
    3. Right-click on the single parent component and select "Copy"
  6. Then I go back to the empty 3D model, right click in the browser tree at the left and select "paste new" which copy the contents of the modified STEP file into the 3D model for my package. This prevents any sort of link or dependency between the STEP file and the 3D model. I can then delete and close the STEP file.
  7. Finally I will select geometry on the STEP file, like the center of a pin or pad, and joint it to the appropriate location on the footprint.

If I recall properly, before I added in the last step using the joint tool, I was just moving the part to the approximate location where it seemed to fit the footprint OK, as I didn't have any way to reference the geometry of the part to the footprint. Furthermore, I recall there being instances in which the packages would not be oriented and positioned correctly on the 3D PCB view, which I discovered would be resolved by using the joint tool.

 

Like I said, it's been a long time, but what I think I concluded when this first came up was that rotating and moving parts in the 2D PCB editor sometimes caused issues in that the footprint would move and rotate properly, but the 3D model wouldn't move with it. In other words, I suspected that the 3D package was remaining in it's default orientation with its own axis directions and origin location.

Message 5 of 12
jorge_garcia2
in reply to: crefvem

Hello @crefvem,

 

I hope you're doing well. Thank you for the detailed explanation. The standard workflows revolve around uploading the step file into the 3D Package and preserving the link. Is there any reason you don't want the link? Would you be willing to try using the insert  design as shown in this video?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlhIeRFX-N4&list=PLmA_xUT-8UlKE-U-eEqrkNEI7rd1fUnLY&index=4

 

Try it this way and let me know if you continue to run into problems.

 

Let me know if there's anything else I can do for you.

 

Best Regards,



Jorge Garcia
​Product Support Specialist for Fusion 360 and EAGLE

Kudos are much appreciated if the information I have shared is helpful to you and/or others.

Did this resolve your issue? Please accept it "As a Solution" so others may benefit from it.
In this video, we cover how to create a fully parametric 3D package using the package generator inside of Fusion 360. We briefly touch on how you can use step models from other sources as well Video 1: Electronics Libraries Overview https://youtu.be/xNIEXCimRSg Video 2: Making Schematic Symbol ...
Message 6 of 12
crefvem
in reply to: crefvem

I'll take a look at the video and try out the suggested method.

 

The reason is simple - I'm trying to reduce the number of files required for a single library. I think it's already quite cumbersome that every individual 3D package needs to be saved in its own file (even if the same package is used for multiple parts). With a separate STEP file for each package that means that there are two models per library.

 

I don't see why we should need 2N+1 files (where N is the number of parts) for a single electronics library.

Message 7 of 12
crefvem
in reply to: crefvem

After watching that video, it seems to match what I was doing before I started having problems with part orientation and positioning. The video doesn't actually show how to constrain the physical package to the footprint as the method used in the video is based on the package generator (which always works great, but doesn't have non-standard parts).

 

I don't see why it's not a good idea to joint the part to the footprint. The fact that the software allows you to select join origins based on features of the footprint suggests that this is a feature intended to be used by the software design team.

Message 8 of 12
jorge_garcia2
in reply to: crefvem

Hi @crefvem ,

 

I hope you're doing well. I agree about the 2N+1 files being annoying but for now it's a tradeoff the org is willing to accept while we get the lib management authoring workflows improved.

 

The argument to be made here is that there is no need to constrain the 3D model to the footprint. In the 3D PCB these two are always kept together and are only interacted with together. It would be really interesting to see what issues you were running into. I'll ping the devs on this thread to see if I can get their technical insight on this.

Let me know if there's anything I can do for you.

 

Best Regards,



Jorge Garcia
​Product Support Specialist for Fusion 360 and EAGLE

Kudos are much appreciated if the information I have shared is helpful to you and/or others.

Did this resolve your issue? Please accept it "As a Solution" so others may benefit from it.
Message 9 of 12
crefvem
in reply to: crefvem

I would like to follow up on this.

 

I've changed some of my libraries to not use the joint method we've been discussing. However, I'm still experiencing the same orientation problems with the 3D models on my PCB. I'm really confused as there doesn't seem to be a pattern to when this occurs. In many cases when I copy components in the schematic it will cause this issue to occur, but not always. In this case I've copied the same component twice, and one of the new copies is oriented properly but the other is not.

 

It looks visually as if the 3D model is reverting back to the initial orientation when it's first inserted into the package no matter if I use the move tool to orient it or if I joint it. I guess a solution would be to make sure that the origin for each 3D model is in the same location and orientation as the package, but that would be tedious and time consuming for already existing models.

 

It's getting to the point that I have to fix my libraries pretty much every time I work on this PCB. I'm quite frustrated as the 3D integration is one of the few reasons that I still actively use Fusion 360 instead of switching to other software.

 

crefvem_0-1695943885599.png

 

Message 10 of 12
jorge_garcia2
in reply to: crefvem

Hi @crefvem,

 

I hope you're doing well. Would you be willing to invite me to the hub to check the library and the design? If you are open to this, please let me know and I'll DM you my email and possibly the one of a developer so that they can also review what's going on.

 

Let me know if there's anything else I can do for you.

 

Best Regards,



Jorge Garcia
​Product Support Specialist for Fusion 360 and EAGLE

Kudos are much appreciated if the information I have shared is helpful to you and/or others.

Did this resolve your issue? Please accept it "As a Solution" so others may benefit from it.
Message 11 of 12
TrippyLighting
in reply to: crefvem


 

I don't see why it's not a good idea to joint the part to the footprint. The fact that the software allows you to select join origins based on features of the footprint suggests that this is a feature intended to be used by the software design team.


It is indeed a very good idea. It just isn't implemented (yet).

Peter Doering
Message 12 of 12


@jorge_garcia2 wrote:

Hello @crefvem,

 

... The standard workflows revolve around uploading the step file into the 3D Package and preserving the link.

 


That is the standard workflow on the electronics side only. It is also out of touch with how the mechanical assembly side of Fusion 360 works. I find the workflow the OP uses - inserting an existing Fusion 360 design as a linked component into the Package file - completely natural. 

 

So the question why is wrong. The question I ask, is why not? !!!

 

Peter Doering

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