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How to manage files locally not with the cloud

alex.bussiere
Participant

How to manage files locally not with the cloud

alex.bussiere
Participant
Participant

It seems that Eagle development has become idle, with all updates happening within Fusion 360. We have a multi member team that needs access to all design files and we need to revision control our design files outside of Fusion360. We can end up needing to do design work without an internet connection with multiple members. We like Eagle for that reason, its very easy to do that. Is there a way to have Fusion 360 use local design files not cloud based? 

 

I am starting to question continuing our Eagle subscription and not migrating to another CAD designer like Altium or KiCAD now that AutoDesk seems to only be developing new features for Fusion 360

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jorge_garcia
Autodesk
Autodesk

Hi @alex.bussiere,

 

I hope you're doing well. Remember that Fusion 360 can be offline for 2 weeks, so you don't have to be always connected to the internet to get work done. I think you could handle all of your revision control and collaboration needs within Fusion 360. If you think this is not the case we would definitely be interested in knowing more about your use case.

 

With that said there is no way to have Fusion 360 use local design files instead of the cloud infrastructure.

 

Let me know if there's anything else I can do for you.

 

Best Regards,



Jorge Garcia
​Product Support Specialist for Fusion 360 and EAGLE

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mike.durian
Advocate
Advocate

Hi @jorge_garcia ,

The cloud aspects of Fusion really are a significant regression from Eagle and Fusion will never be a true replacement for Eagle as long as it is mandatory.

 

While Fusion might be able to act as a replacement for local revision control, that does not mean it is the best way to do it. If you are using another revision control system for all the other work (software, documentation, etc.), having to use a Fusion's revision management for CAD work makes management more complex. Just because you can do it, doesn't mean you should do it.

 

Yes, you can always export your schematics, layouts and libraries and then track those in your local revision control system. This is what I do, but it would be better if you could configure this as the default method. Allow Save to be an alias for Export instead of writing to the cloud.

 

The collaboration aspects of cloud storage aren't really very meaningful. At least not until multiple users can edit the same schematic and layout simultaneously. As long as it is one user at a time, it is not an improvement over doing the same thing will local storage. In fact, it is a bit of a step back since you are now subject to the vagaries of the internet and cloud's operational status.

 

I've been a paid user of Eagle since at least 2009. Perhaps earlier. I know I was using the free version for a couple years before ponying up for a license. I've been using Fusion since Eagle was absorbed. I like the tools and have a lot of time and knowledge invested in them, yet I fear that I might soon have to throw all that away and learn a new tool just because of the cloud issue (and auto-updates).

 

I currently work on military projects, though I am not employed by the military myself. While I've been able to get by when it was just me working on designs, we are starting to bring in other people who do work for the military and have their offices on a military base. They can't access the cloud from their regular computers. They have to use special stand-alone computers that are not plugged into the base's network and then use an access point through their phones to get to the cloud. This is obviously not ideal. The same problem applies to the auto-update aspect of Fusion. While I'm dealing with the military in this case, I imagine the same concerns could apply to any company that has strict rules regarding IP and network access.

 

If Fusion took advantage of GovCloud, that would probably address many of the issues, but from what I understand it is too expensive for Autodesk. It seems a simpler, cleaner solution would be to just make all the cloud stuff optional. Saves become exports and we deal with revision control ourselves. It's not as flashy as assigning a UUID to every revision of every file and storing it all in the cloud, but it is also simpler and easier to manage in many (most?) situations. I'm not suggesting Fusion toss all the cloud stuff completely. Just make it optional for those of us for whom it is not a good fit.

 

If Fusion is not able to do that and if Eagle is truly EOL (which it appears to be), then maybe the ECAD stuff that came from Eagle could also be integrated into another Autodesk product that does not use the cloud. I don't know anything about it, but perhaps Inventor is such a product.

 

This ended up being a bit longer than I'd intended to write, but I don't think the cloud concerns are as easily swept away as Autodesk might like and I'm really unhappy with the prospect that I (and all my existing designs) might have to migrate to a competitor's product with the learning curve and loss of productivity that entails.

 

mike

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alex.bussiere
Participant
Participant

@mike.durian you perfectly outlined the issue

 

User's should not be forced into using built in version control. Majority of our 3D CAD uses Inventor and we manage the version control externally with Windchill. For firmware we use Git, and we also use that for our hardware. It makes sharing the designs much simpler. When using Eagle with Git, we version control the eagle design files as well as the GERBER and production files together so that we know we can go back to specific commits/releases and get accurate production information if we are trying to route cause an issue or need to remake older designs. 

Outside of professional work, forcing files to be stored in the cloud has an impact on open source projects where there can be a variety of contributors, and people using the designs in their own work. Eagle files are a great way to manage this, and Fusion360 seems to put a huge road block to this type of work by forcing files to be saved in the cloud. Yes you can export designs, but you take a risk with every file conversion that something does not export as expected. Being able to control the native files is essential. 

 

I can see Fusion cloud being a great tool for hobbyists who might not want to take on version control themselves, but as long its the only option, Fusion360 has a huge hurdle to overcome for professional use. 

 

I don't mind subscription fees if it means that software gets continued updates and support. It's frustrating to start the subscription for Eagle and then essentially Autodesk kill off eagle without implementing all the abilities of Eagle into Fusion will certainly lead to people switching software. Continuing to pay a subscription for EOL software that will probably not receive any updates is hard to justify.

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jorge_garcia
Autodesk
Autodesk

Hi @alex.bussiere and @mike.durian ,

 

Thank you for you valuable feedback. I'll make sure this goes up the chain.

I want to make one comment about the force update, there is actually some movement on this front and it will bear fruit shortly.

 

In regards to the export, you can just export the full Archive of the design as an .f3z file. There is no conversion in that case so any other Fusion 360 user could open the files and the risk is mitigated. This is just FYI.

 

I don't have any comments on the cloud infrastructure part other than I'll make sure your comments are seen. Thank you again for taking the time to write them.

 

Best Regards,



Jorge Garcia
​Product Support Specialist for Fusion 360 and EAGLE

Kudos are much appreciated if the information I have shared is helpful to you and/or others.

Did this resolve your issue? Please accept it "As a Solution" so others may benefit from it.
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mike.durian
Advocate
Advocate

Thanks for the reply @jorge_garcia . I'm excited to learn about the changes to forced updates. Hopefully, we can get some movement on the cloud stuff, too.

 

As for the .f3z export file, it is handy bundle. However, and this applies to fsch, fbrd and flbr files too, these are zip files with a different extension. Being binary files, revision control systems can't diff them against prior versions. This bloats repositories. It would be handy if there were a way to save or export to flat text files that contain the same information. It would be a little friendlier to external revision control systems. The Eagle save files are a good example.

 

mike

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jorge_garcia
Autodesk
Autodesk

Hey @mike.durian,

 

Word to the wise, try unzipping the fsch, fbrd, and flbr file. I think you're in for a nice surprise. 😉

 

Best Regards,



Jorge Garcia
​Product Support Specialist for Fusion 360 and EAGLE

Kudos are much appreciated if the information I have shared is helpful to you and/or others.

Did this resolve your issue? Please accept it "As a Solution" so others may benefit from it.
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mike.durian
Advocate
Advocate

Hi @jorge_garcia ,

Yes, it is nice to see the Eagle files buried in there along with the other stuff. Warm fuzzies, indeed.

 

Still, having to unzip the file, then add the contents as individual files to revision control and then reconstitute the zip file if a restore is ever required isn't really a smooth process. Yes, it could be automated, but it just seems awkward.

 

I might be showing my age, but if all the information in the separate files in the zip file cannot be held in a single non-zipped file, maybe shar(1) could be offered as an alternative to the zip format. It would still preserve the contents as separate files but it would be rolled up into a single text file (binary content, which appears to be small, is uuencoded).

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epowerHHPFL
Community Visitor
Community Visitor

I know this is an old issue, but I'd like to add my voice to it. My team uses a git-based workflow with pull requests and reviews that worked quite well with Eagle. We're looking at transitioning to Fusion but the tool's insistence on not storing files locally is making us less likely to keep using Eagle/Fusion for our PCBs.

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alex.bussiere
Participant
Participant

@epowerHHPFL we also follow  a git-based workflow. In addition to being able to manage pull requests and reviews, having our designs managed in git allows for anyone on our team to clone the hardware files and review design files easily and quickly when working on firmware for the products. Even being able to branch designs and test out new ideas easily is very powerful for our small team. Our 3D CAD is version controlled with Windchill company wide, so the 3D CAD in fusion is beneficial for generating the CAD, but we end up using it with Inventor for our assemblies. File management outside of Fusion Cloud is a necessity for our team and will most likely mean picking new ECAD software within the next 6 months that allows for local file storage, like Altium. 

 

We have been at a customers site with zero internet access (and no cell coverage) and being able to continue locally with Eagle with git commits is way better than trying to work with fusion without an internet connection

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