Unable to place part on PCB in Board mode & Cyclic Error

[friedl.basson]

Hi - 

I am unable to place a Particle Boron part on the custom PCB.  I am familiar with Eagle in terms of error messages you receive when exceeding allowed board space, but in this case, a semi-circular green shape appears when trying to move the part onto the board.

The board was created by projecting from a sketch in fusion in order to fit the enclosure.  Is this due to board size restrictions?  Find some screen grabs attached. 

I have, in the meantime, reverted ti using Eagle whihc seems not to have the problem.  It does present me with another problem though.  After pushing the board to Fusion, I am unable to use "Insert into current design".  I get a Cyclic Error message.  Please see attached as well.

Would appreciate your help, would hate to start over 🙂 

Many thanks. Friedl.

[panpan_fan]

Hi @friedl.basson 

I hope you are doing well!

For your two questions, here are my answers:

Q1: Unable to place part on PCB in Board

We have a new Feature Push and Shove in Fusion 360. You see the semi-circular green shape because your movement will cause Violations. The Push Violators Mode can help you to avoid violators. You can change the Push Move to Ignore Violators Mode in the navigation bar so that you can Move successfully.

For more detail about the Push and Shove, please see the video here  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4wkUCD9HSs

Q2: Cyclic Error

From your screenshot, I guess you have a circle dependency in your workflow.

For example, you insert File A into File B, then you can't insert File B into File A again. Because it will cause Cyclic Dependency. So would you mind checking the two files you want to insert  if they have dependency relationship?

If you still have problems, please let us know, thanks!

Regards,

Panpan Fan

[friedl.basson]

Hi - 

Thank you for the timeous response, it is much appreciated.  

Q1: I will disable this feature and see whether it allows me to place the component.  I do have a suspicion though that the total board size might exceed the allowed 80cm^2.

Q2: Hhmm.. I have never seen this error so it might be hard for me to determine.  The procedure I followed was this:

• Designed Enclosure in Fusion
• Created and offset plane and projected the face to the shape of the PCB.
• I then tried Fusion Electronics, but when I failed to place the component I reverted to Eagle.
• I linked the projected face to a board file in Eagle to het the board shape.  Placed a component and pushed it to Fusion.
• When attempting to insert it into the design, I het the error.

I have another small PCB in this design already as it will utilise two PCB's each in different components. The first one (done in FE) works just fine.

Do you mind advising on how I would go about checking for these dependancies?

Kind Regards,

Friedl.

[panpan_fan]

Hi @friedl.basson 

Thanks for your feedback!

For Q1, I think it should be related to the Push and Shove Feature rather than Board size limitation.

If the root reason is the Board size limitation, I think it should popup up the detailed warning dialog to tell you that you are not allowed to put the part outside of your license limitation.

I guess it should work when you change the Mode to Ignore Violators. Please let us know if it can't work.

For Q2, thanks for sharing your workflow to us. I guess you may choose the Derive PCB from Sketch command to create the PCB in Fusion 360 after you project the face. The Derive PCB from Sketch command will have a link relationship between the Sketch file and the PCB file. I suggest you create a new Fusion Design and insert those two files rather than insert one to another. Or if Q1 works well for you, you can do your work in Fusion. Then the dependency between files can be more clear.

Please have a try, thanks!

Regards,

Panpan Fan

[friedl.basson]

Hi @panpan_fan 

Just to provide an update.  

Q1: disabling "push and shove" (or setting to ignore violation) did indeed solve this problem.

Q2: I briefly did a new design in Fusion Electronics with the single component that presented a problem placing. I managed to created the new pCB and link it to the necessary 2D files (Board File, Schematic and Project File).  I am still not able to insert the PCB into the current design, it seems the same problem persist.

I appreciate your help.  Would like to resolve this before completing the PCB as it is quite a complex design and would hate to have to redo everything 🙂 

Many thanks in advance.

Friedl.

[friedl.basson]

Hi @panpan_fan 

---

. I suggest you create a new Fusion Design and insert those two files rather than insert one to another. Or if Q1 works well for you, you can do your work in Fusion. Then the dependency between files can be more clear.

Please have a try, thanks!

---

As per the message I just sent, I tried this option.  I managed to place the component so 'push and shove' error is resolved, but I am still stuck with the PCB error, even when created din Fusion.

Many thanks!

[panpan_fan]

Hi @friedl.basson 

Thanks for your feedback. 

I may need to explain a word `Fusion Design` in case you misunderstand my last comment.

The Fusion Design I mentioned before is a Fusion Model Design not a Electronic 3D PCB design. 

You can just click the '+' in the menu bar to create a new one and saved as File A.

Then insert your 3D PCB file and Enclosure File into File A.

If you already try this workflow, please ignore me. 

If you still can't solve it, would you mind inviting me into your project so that I can see your file and find the root cause of this warning dialog? I will send my email to you as a private message. Thanks!

Regards,

Panpan Fan

[panpan_fan · Accepted solution]

Hi Friedl,

I am glad it works.

Yes, Derive PCB from Sketch command will make the 3D PCB have  the link relationship with the original sketch file. The meaning of the relationship is that the 3D PCB can be updated when the original sketch file is changed. So it causes the Cyclic Error warning when you insert the 3D PCB into the Enclosure File which is the original file of the sketch.

And for the tips for Fusion 360, you can see the playlist of Video about Fusion 360 Electronic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqwHkB9lsUo&list=PLmA_xUT-8UlI0k9YsKK23onh_0VV2_DP5&index=3

I think it may do some help.

And you can also post your questions in Fusion 360 Electronic Forum, we will do our best to answer them.

Thanks again for participating in Fusion 360 Forum!

Regards,

Panpan Fan

[andrew.henson92]

Hi @panpan_fan and @friedl.basson

Wondering if there's any update on this old thread? I am experiencing the same problem here, regarding making the PCB in Fusion.

My workflow
1. Create offset plane on desired surface
2. Create sketch on offset plane, project all relevant constraints for my enclosure, then create my PCB outline
3. Create PCB -> Create Associative PCB

It all works great up to here. I have a 3D PCB linked to it's respective 2D design files. It really is awesome.

So naturally, the next step is to see the PCB inside the enclosure. But I cannot successfully do this. I get the circular dependency error.

Any luck in achieving this?

TLDR: I just want to see the PCB sitting inside the enclosure that defines it

[jorge_garcia]

Hi @andrew.henson92 ,

I hope you're doing well. When working with an associative PCB the workaround for the circular dependency error is to create a third file and bring the enclosure and Associative PCB into that third file. In that way you avoid the circular dependency. I have a video coming out soon that covers the different methods to work with 3D PCBs in Fusion 360.

Let me know if there's anything else I can do for you.

Best Regards,

[andrew.henson92]

Hi @jorge_garcia,

Thanks a lot for the response. Looking forward to the video!

Andy

[ruddypartner]

It seems like the green shape could indicate board boundary or component placement issues in Fusion 360. For the cyclic error, it might be due to dependency loops between the PCB and the main design in Fusion.