Schematic/PCB sync deactivated -- ERC Sync function not working

[matt.morrow]

I am about 20 hours into a project and the schematic/PCB went out of sync. I always have the entire electronic project open so the schematic/PCB/3D models were never modified with the others closed.  I did some edit-in-place updates with the 3D model and pushed to 2D pcb shortly before the sync problem -- not confident this was the cause.

Regardless of what caused the sync issue, the ERC run-synchronization is not working and does not appear to do anything at all. I click the run ERC synchronize, make sure everything is selected and press run but nothing changes -- schematic and 2D PCB still say out of sync and all nets are gone on PCB. I had to do a lot of forum searching to find a post from earlier this year saying the ERC synchronization function does not work on modules. Given that modules are a great ECAD tool I am using 12 of the same modules in my schematic.

Are modules still not usable in the schematic/PCB synchronization function?

If so, how do I resolve this problem?

I am +20 hours into a project and I am now at a dead stop unable to move forward without scrapping my PCB layout and starting over.

[jorge_garcia]

Hi @matt.morrow ,

I hope you're doing well. Run the ERC and let me know how many consistency errors you have? It's possible you only have one or two. In that scenario, correct them then run the ERC to re-establish the consistency.

If you have a large number of errors then knowing the type of error will help us sort this out.

Best Regards,

[matt.morrow]

Hi Jorge,

Running the ERC shows

152 "Consistency errors"

0 "Errors"

60 "Warning"

0 "Approved

All "Consistency errors" say something along the lines of

"Different connections on C1 pin and pad 2 (GND1 / none)" -- the second item in brackets always displays "none"

All of the "Warning" say something along the lines of

"Net xxx overlaps port" or "Only one pin on net xxxx" -- these are caused by the frustrating net/label system that does not allow you to place a label on a port directly and instead tediously place a wire and then a net name, many times this still does not work despite looking like pins/ports are correctly net connected.

I have tried just about every option in the Synchronizer tool and nothing every changes after pressing Run. The schematic and PCB still say they are out of sync and 90% of nets on the PCB are gone.

It's also mind blowing that there is still no useful cross probing between PCB and schematic to make find these issues even remotely possible. Take a look at the free software Kicad and the simple and immensely powerful cross probing of schematic-PCB components that is implemented. Forget all of the 2D-3D fancy edit in place CAD features and implement these basic tools required to do any meaningful work. Not only does schematic to PCB cross probing not work but selecting an item on the ERC checker simply jumps to either the full schematic or PCB zoomed out view without highlighting the actual problem...

I am excited about fusion electronics and the dev team are absolutely on the right track with the 3D cad and 2D pcb unification and tools -- but they seriously need to take several steps back and implement these fundamental basic workflow features like cross probing, simple component drag and drop placement and easier group selections (no more needing to select a select tool to select things). Please scrap the painful component anchor/cross find and selecting and implement a drag and drop of components from anywhere on there symbol/footprint like every other ECAD tool.

[jorge_garcia]

Hi @matt.morrow ,

Those errors are basically saying that the connections on the schematic don't show up on the board. At any point did you have airwires on the board? I'm concerned that maybe the synchronizer might have blown them away in an effort to synchronize the two.

At this point I would recommend going through your version history and restore one of the previous versions of the designs. I know you may lose some work but I think it will save you time in the long wrong.

In regards to the net label system, have you tried using the NETBREAKOUT command and functionality. I think it would help alleviate some of these issue for you. Try it, right click on a component and then select the Breakout pins command. Even if your not happy with the initial names given, renaming the nets is quick with NAME command. I think you'll find that better than you're current workflow.

The ERC will normally zoom in on the specific issue, a GND net however typically spans a lot of area so in that case the zoom tries to encapsulate all of the missing GND traces which leads to the zoomed out view you are seeing.

I agree on the need for better cross-probing in Fusion Electronics, the best you can do for now is the select-sch-group-to-brd-group. ulp that ships with Fusion 360. The component anchor I agree is not very flexible, but that will take some time for change even though it's on the roadmap because there's a lot of infrastructure the selection system touches. In the meantime, the more you use Fusion360 the more you'll find that less of a concern since you acclamate to looking towards the center of the part for the handle.

Thank you for the feedback.

Best Regards,

[matt.morrow]

Hi @jorge_garcia ,

I appreciate your reply. Yes the PCB had all of the correct air-wires at the start of the project -- they were lost after board layout and a couple of 3D model edit-in-place adjustments.

Loosing this many hours from a PCB-schematic sync issue, which seems to pop up out of nowhere, is infuriating for a hobby project and unacceptable for a business trying to make and sustain a product. I have never experienced project crippling problems like this even with other free software. I hope the dev team is able to fix these kind of issues very soon.

[jorge_garcia]

Hi @matt.morrow ,

I hope you're doing well. Thanks for the feedback, I'll report this. If you have any additional information about when you lost consistency that will help us narrow this down.

That fact that you mention edit in place is very interesting. Any more details you can give us about what you were doing with edit in place when consistency was lost that will really help.

Best Regards,

[matt.morrow]

Hi @jorge_garcia,

I reverted back to an older version before the sync issue. I then did 2 hours of work. I tried to drag and drop one of the modules on the SHEETSs menu at the bottom of the schematic tab in an attempt to re-order them -- instead of re-ordering the module/sheet it duplicated the module/sheet and all of the parts from the module/sheet appeared on the PCB causing the "Schematic/PCB sync deactivated" to appear once again.

I ran the sync tool with all of the default items selected ie. I did not change or click anything other than run. Once again all of the nets are lost and 1 consistency error turned into 203. 

[jorge_garcia]

Hi @matt.morrow ,

I hope you're doing well. Thank you for that information, let me ask what caused you to revert prior to the sync issue? Usually users revert because something went wrong, in this case I want to know what went wrong that forced you to go to an older version.

I'm reporting the issues for development now.

Let me know if there's anything else I can do for you.

Best Regards,

[matt.morrow]

Hi @jorge_garcia 

I reverted because that is the only solution that was provided for fixing the problem outlined in my original post.

1) I posted about schematic-PCB sync issue seemingly out of nowhere and the sync tool does not work.

2) Reply to my post saying there is no solution and to revert back to an older version and loose work progress.

3) I reply saying I reverted back to an older version and soon after received another sync issue while simply trying to organize modules/sheets on the schematic window. The sync function once again broke the project even further using the default sync settings.

4) Reply asking why I reverted to an older version.

I hope that clarifies your question if I am not misunderstanding it.

[ryanAW97Q]

I am having the exact same issue. This is my first project using fusion electronics. I usually use Eagle but wanted to give this a try. This is the third time I have run into this issue on this project and had to go back to an earlier version. A project that should have taken a day or two has now taken over a week. the program keeps losing consistency between the board and schematic, and the synchronize button doesn't work at all. It only causes more errors, or does absolutely nothing. Is there a way to manually get rid of the sync errors? There is only 1 consistency error(not really the pin is connected to GND on both the schematic and board, but the program thinks there's a problem) and 3 other errors.

[jorge_garcia]

Hi @ryanAW97Q,

I hope you're doing well. Since you are coming from EAGLE I'm going to assume that you know the importance of making sure the board and schematic are always open together. In Fusion 360 it's also important to make sure that the Electronics Design document is also open at all times.

If your design uses hierarchy, then you should not use the synchronizer at all since it will only create more problems.

If you only have one consistency error then it's easier to fix it manually. Easiest thing is to delete the connection in both the schematic and the board, run ERC and then once it confirms the design is consistent re-add the connection.

Let me know if there's anything else I can do for you.

Best Regards,

[ryanAW97Q]

How do I delete the connection in the board view? I can remove the trace, but it still knows that it is supposed to be connected to GND and still has the rats nest line. I don't know how to remove that without doing it in the schematic. Also the problem seems to occur when I save the file, not when I open it. I think the file may be getting corrupted during the save(Auto save doesn't work at all.)

[jorge_garcia]

Hi @ryanAW97Q,

I hope you're doing well. When the board/sch are not consistent you can select airwires and delete them. Make sure that airwire is set in the in the selection filter. Select it and delete it in the board.

Make sure all the files are open together when you save and initiate the save from the Electronics design file.

Let me know if there's anything else I can do for you.

Best Regards,

[wigir]

Hi,

I'm also having a torrid time with synchronisation between schematic and PCB. In particular, due to the sync being deactivated, changes to the schematic require a manual synchronization from the schematic to the PCB. This often causes polygon fills on inner GND and VM layers (layers 2 & 15) to be deleted. 

Any recommendations are welcome !

[jorge_garcia]

Hi @wigir ,

I hope you're doing well. Once synchronization is lost the first priority is to get it back, because then it will be maintained moving forward as long as you keep the schematic and board open together at the same time.

Let me know if there's anything else I can do for you.

Best Regards,

[wigir]

Hi Jorge,

Many thanks for your reply. 

I will try to re-establish the automatic synchronisation between schematic and PCB. That said, running the ERC on the PCB shows does not show any problems. Please let me know if there are other ways of resolving the sync issue, given the ERC results. Perhaps it would be useful if some logging was available to indicate the problem that results in the lack of synchronisation?

I've already spent a considerable amount of time on the PCB, so the idea of generating a new PCB from scratch is not very attractive.

Best Regards

[wigir]

Hi Jorge,

I have been unable to find a workaround for this synchronization issue.

It appears that if one makes an addition/modification of a component connected to a particular signal, the synchronize function completely un-routes all previously routed tracks connected to that signal.

This is a nightmare for us, especially with routes connected to GND and VS. 

Can you suggest any workaround for this? The ERC check is not showing any errors or warnings, but the automatic sync between schematic and PCB remains deactivated.

 It is dissapointing that synchronisation issues have seemingly been around for a number of years without a proper resolution.

Regards

[jorge_garcia]

Hi @wigir ,

I hope you're doing well. The ERC only runs in the schematic and not the BRD. Make sure that the schematic and board are always open together with the Electronics design file. 

Synchronization issues generally only crop up if one of the editors get's closed while the others are still open and being edited. 

Assuming you have the linked schematic and board open then running the ERC in the schematic will bring up any consistency issues.

If you can post images of the consistency errors you get that will give me more context to offer help.

Let me know if there's anything else I can do for you.

Best Regards,

[wigir]

Thanks for your response. 

Regarding the ERC, there are no errors shown. See the attached screenshot.

On performing an ERC, I get the sync deactivated message with the (attached) forward/back annotation dialog being shown.

Regards.

[jorge_garcia]

Hi @wigir,

Something here doesn't make sense. Make sure you are running the actual ERC command and not ERRORs. ERRORs will by default show you the results of the last time the ERC was run. On the board something similar will happen with the ERRORS command. 

If you can record yourself doing this that will speed things up.

Let me know if there's anything else I can do for you.

Best Regards,