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computation issue in generative design module

11 REPLIES 11
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Message 1 of 12
wnicolai
332 Views, 11 Replies

computation issue in generative design module

Hi, 

I am getting an error after sending my design to the job finished with errors and I am wondering what goes wrong. 

wnicolai_0-1689337803089.png

 

11 REPLIES 11
Message 2 of 12
kellings
in reply to: wnicolai

Hi @wnicolai Can you tell me what the Job ID is for this and I'll see if I can find out the reason it failed? 

 

Thanks,

 

Kevin

Kevin Ellingson
Technical Specialist

If my post resolves your issue, please click the Accept Solution button.
Message 3 of 12
wnicolai
in reply to: kellings

Hi Kevin,

Thanks a lot for your help! These are the job ID. I had to highly decrease resolution of the model to achieve processing. But the channels I created are not working anymore then sadly and I get a weird fluid path.


Best regards,
Nicolai


[cid:307D7653-B56B-4114-9C77-0BB158C8CE4F]
Message 4 of 12
kellings
in reply to: wnicolai

Hi @wnicolai It looks like you tried to attach something, but it didn't seem to make it. Can you give it another shot please? 

 

Thanks,

 

Kevin

Kevin Ellingson
Technical Specialist

If my post resolves your issue, please click the Accept Solution button.
Message 5 of 12
wnicolai
in reply to: kellings

Hi Kevin, sorry for the delayed answer. I have attached three screenshots. One is the error message that I get when increasing the resolution. The other two are the design and the parameters set for the generative design. I am making a microfluidic chip and would like to optimise fluid flow in the chip's channels. I am not sure if the model can pick up the channels. First because the whole base is marked yellow and the second the resolution might be too low to pick up the channels.

Message 6 of 12
MikeSmell_ADSK
in reply to: wnicolai

@wnicolai - Are you able to share the model? It is hard to tell what your setup looks like in the images. Also, the JobID functionality isn't totally sorted out just yet. 

 

Thanks, 

Mike Smell

Sr. Product Manager, Fusion 360

Message 7 of 12
wnicolai
in reply to: MikeSmell_ADSK

Hi, 

I tried to attach it here. Does this work?

Message 8 of 12
MikeSmell_ADSK
in reply to: wnicolai

@wnicolai - 

 

I have looked at the model and I have 2 observations. 

1. This model is very thin and you had the resolution settings on the lowest setting. This should be bumped up, I would go to the max setting. 

2. What is the importance of the detailed channels in the starting shape? Those details won't necessarily be keep in the final shape just because they are in the starting shape. If you need those details, we might need to use obstacles to drive that style of shape.

 

With the 2 observations above, I turned the resolution settings to the maximum and removed all of the detail from the starting shape and did get a result. I would suggest trying the same and see if the result meets your expectation. 

 

Thanks, 

Mike 

Message 9 of 12
wnicolai
in reply to: MikeSmell_ADSK

Hi Mike,

 

thanks a lot for these points. Can you elaborate on what details you have removed to get a result? I will try that. Ideally I would like to keep the shape of the channels in the starting shape. 

Message 10 of 12
MikeSmell_ADSK
in reply to: wnicolai

@wnicolai - 

 

Here are a few images of what I did. You can see that I removed all of the detail from the starting shape. It is important to note that the starting shape is just that, a starting volume. There is nothing that is going to keep any of its original shape if the solvers do not think that it is required. I think the images below are a good reflection of that. 

 

MikeSmell_ADSK_0-1690807175147.png

MikeSmell_ADSK_1-1690807197200.png

 

If you were trying to get some or all of those channels intact, a much more sophisticated obstacle strategy is going to be required. You would want to have some or all of the highlighted faces extruded as obstacles in the flow domain. Once created, these should be cut out of the starting shape. I will warn that these really fine channels may be hard for the software to resolve given the aspect ratio of the design space you are working with. 

 

MikeSmell_ADSK_2-1690807600682.png

 

I hope this helps. 

 

Mike 

 

 

 

Message 11 of 12
wnicolai
in reply to: MikeSmell_ADSK

Thanks a lot for your help! Yes I am particularly interested in the liquid flow through the channels and how those can be modified to improve the flow. Would scaling up the model help? I guess since the aspect ratio is the same it might still be too tricky. Do you mean extruding the blue faces into the z direction you highlighted and then cutting them of the plain block (starting shape)? Alternatively do you think I will gain insights when using CFD (from Autodesk) simulations?
Message 12 of 12
MikeSmell_ADSK
in reply to: wnicolai

@wnicolai - 

 

I don't think scaling the model up would help too much, because of the aspect ratio. Regarding the blue faces, yes, extruding them as new obstacle bodies in the z direction would be what you would have to do. It is also important to understand what generative design is doing. We are using the starting shape as an initial volume and the solvers will look to find the lowest pressure drop flow path in that volume for a specified amount of volume reduction, so it may want to change the shape or go around obstacles as it needs to get the lowest pressure drop. In your example, I could imagine that some additional obstacles, even on top of the flow path would be required to ensure you stay in a specified domain. Here is a basic example of what you would likely be working toward, but with your more specific geometry. 


In this example, you can see some of the changes I made to demonstrate the concept. 
1. I have extended cylindrical obstacles in the Z direction the thickness of your original starting shape. 
2. I copied the top obstacle plate and moved it to the bottom of the new starting shape to ensure that the flow stays in that specific thickness.
3. I also put obstacles on the side to keep the generated flow domain within a specific boundary. 
4. You will notice that even in this setup, I left a good amount of room on the outside and that is where the flow chose to go as the primary route of least resistance. 

 

MikeSmell_ADSK_0-1691065377977.png

 

If you are primarily looking to keep your existing flow channels and optimize or refine them, you might be better off analyzing the system in Autodesk CFD and then making some decisions off of those results, as generative design could try to change them significantly. If you are going to continue pursuing generative design, I would also be cautious when making your obstacles. I would probably make them 10-20% smaller than they are designed, to give generative design some flexibility to evolve the shape. 

 

I hope this helps. 

 

Mike 

 

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