This is kind of odd ...
Before, I was able to select a vertex with window selection, but now it's odd that the window selection is just ignoring the vertex and selecting only faces and edges, although the selection filter in the edit form dialog box is set to All
Regards
Saeed
Saeed Hamza
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There are actually a bunch of tools and features that are broken in the sculpt environment now.
Happened over the last 6 months. I have seen this same behavior.
I guess they stopped testing it....
Phil Procario Jr.
Owner, Laser & CNC Creations
Hey @SaeedHamza and @PhilProcarioJr,
I know for the last couple releases this has been the behavior, but I am not sure what the historical default was. I'll look into that a little more, but now that you've started the conversation, this is actually an area that I would love to get some feedback on.
We've been experimenting with ways to make the performance in the Sculpt workspace better, and one way we can do this is to limit the selection of entities with window select. For instance, in a recent test we ran on a big model using window select, we found these results:
One thing that not many people know is that behind the curtain of Edit Form, the command only actually affects vertices. That means that if you select one face and drag the manipulator, it is applying that translation to the 4 vertices that are adjacent to the face, not the face itself. Thus, if you have faces, edges and vertices all selected for the command, the edges and vertices are redundant. Check out these three images below for a visual way of explaining what I mean:
If you overlay those three images, the body is exactly the same in all three situations.
My question to you guys is if we defaulted to Select Face Priority in the Sculpt workspace with performance and Edit Form in mind, how would that impact your workflows? For commands like Pull or Flatten, we'd still allow you to window select vertices once the command is initiated, but you wouldn't be able to pre-select them in a window. I would love to hear your thoughts on this.
On a different note, @PhilProcarioJr, I'd love to set up some time with you to go over the tools that you find broken in the Sculpt environment. We have not had any targeted projects in this workspace recently, but right now we are focusing on a few enhancements in this area and I'd like to get your thoughts. I'll shoot you an email.
Thanks!
You said "
We've been experimenting with ways to make the performance in the Sculpt workspace better, and one way we can do this is to limit the selection of entities with window select. For instance, in a recent test we ran on a big model using window select, we found these results:
This is a prime example of how little the CAD world knows about the power and benefits of the polygon modeling world and why separating the two actually hurts both. It is also disturbing to know that it is possible to select faces, edges, and vertices..... First, in all other apps, I have used they only calculate elements based on vertices. If you select an edge what really happens is your controlling the verts on each end. If you select a face (regardless of sides) your actually selecting the vertices of all the boundary connections. Sure it will display an edge or a face as the selection even though it is only calculating based on the verts. So while most CAD people don't know this, this is pretty common knowledge in the polygon modeling world.
As far as performance goes I'm not sure what to say about this....Topogun programmed by one person can display and manipulate thousands to millions of polygons in real-time, selections are instant regardless of what or how many are being selected and manipulated. Again this is programmed by one person and yet performance is excellent. Fusion chokes on two thousand faces...
Now to be fair I completely understand the difference between a Sub-D mesh and a T-Spline, but given the math that both of them use there should be little to zero performance difference.
You said, "My question to you guys is if we defaulted to Select Face Priority in the Sculpt workspace with performance and Edit Form in mind, how would that impact your workflows?"
Greatly because I don't manipulate geometry based on just faces, or just edges. A lot of times I am selecting a face along with some verts so that the group I move gives me a controlled method for manipulating my shapes. Personally, I don't care how you display it I only care about the amount of control I have over my selections. Selecting and manipulating based on faces mainly in T-Spline will give you terrible results for a surface. If I were going to default to anything it would be verts, not faces.
Most disturbing to me is the fact that the company that programs Fusion doesn't even realize what is broken in their own app. The reason I didn't bother mentioning any of the problems with T-Splines is that Autodesk has made it clear that they only care about MCAD specific functionality and I support that, but if T-Splines are going to become crippled you might as well disable or remove them.
I might also add that if you guys plan to continue focusing on generative design you're going to find that T-Splines is going to be your only options of creating usable models, so you might want to shift a little more development towards T-Splines before they are completely broken.
I'm sure many others will disagree so this is just my 2 cents for what it's worth if anything.
Phil Procario Jr.
Owner, Laser & CNC Creations
@lucasproko for window and freeform selection I'd vastly prefer to select vertices, not faces or edges.
For paint select, I'd prefer faces as using paint select on vertices makes little sense.
In general I believe looking at selection when trying to optimize performance is IMHO really the wrong way to look at improving performance.
While this is about a year back I tested Solid Thinking Evolve. Their PolyNurbs technology is very similar in results to T-Splines and based on tests I ran is more than 10 times faster on complex geometry while still remaining fully editable. For example I imported a quad mesh into both softwares and conversion in STE was 17 times faster than Fusion 360.
That mesh was not editable in Fusion 360 but it was no problem editing this in STE.
