Why is F360 so difficult?

[MadManScott]

I've taught myself Photoshop, Gimp, 3d studio max, maya, blender... I've made my own 3d videogames in Unity and Unreal... modeled my own objects for it, textured them, compiled them for android and ios...

but for some reason i cant do anything in fusion 360 but draw boxes and import svg... Is there technical reasons why this software is so impossible?

For example, in any other software if i want to move something, i select the thing i want to move, click the move button/tool/whatever, and i move it.

Not in fusion360.

The move tool doesnt move anything. I've spent hours trying to figure out simply how to move a rectangle and its just not possible. 

I have managed to "twist" things with the move tool. i dont remotely understand how the software thinks i want to do this. Im not using a "twist" tool...

Not to mention this box isnt even centered. I cant figure out how to center it. It would be helpful if i could specify the center in x/y coordinates but i cant find that option.

I have been able to import SVG files, which is the only time i can really move/resize anything. But once i click Okay on that import window, its permanently fixed in that location for all time. I've begun designing my things in inkscape and just importing it to fusion360 so that i can generate basic toolpaths for simple text lettering and things. The CAM side of it is fairly easy... but that doesnt matter much if i cant make anything other than basic lines.

Why are things so difficult in f360? is it some kind of upsell to training classes? I honestly dont understand why i cant just click the move tool, and move something. And its not just moving things. There are a million seemingly simple tasks that i just cant do. No matter how many youtube videos i watch none of it ever works.

Tried the "support and learning" section but i cant access any of that. It tells me to click next. i click next. and its just right back at the main "what would you like to do?" page... I click Start Learning again.... It tells me to  click next... i click next.... back to "what would you like to do?"  hmkay. 

Hell, even trying to manage the saved files is a nightmare. Its impossible to delete anything. What are all these subfolders "master" etc etc for? i dont know.  I have a ****ton of things saved that i would loooove to delete.

Oh, and "G28 Safe Retracts" is a hilarious troll. I zero out x/y/z, retract z a little... hit go.... and ZOOM it rapids the spindle straight down into the piece and tries to rapid the spindle through the work to the beginning point, before retracting and then beginning the proper plunge. WOW!

And im not even talking about rapid'ing the endmill through the material. no, it tries to plunge so deep that my actual spindle would have to penetrate the work. LOL!

The best part of this is its completely hidden toolpath in the previews. It does NOT display this path at all in simulation. Even when i import the resulting gcode into whatever sender software im using, it does NOT show this disaster until im witnessing my machine do it. Thankfully no damage to my spindle or machine, just a broken bit and a destroyed workpiece. But holy! Thats some serious next-level trolling.

Disabled "safe retracts" and now it safely retracts and functions properly. lol. I think whats happening here is when i zero out my Z coordinate, the G28 command is trying to move it to "machine" z0. But, since i just reset my zero axis, this "machine z0" could be DEEEEP into the work piece, further than my machine is even capable of moving.

Avoid G28 retracts at all cost.

WHY?!!??! Has nobody else had this problem? am i missing something wildly obvious for the past 2 months? I dont get it. This software has done nothing but cause waves and waves of frustration and anxiety. I dont think i can deal with this anymore.

[Anonymous]

Having to read the manual first makes it the opposite of “intuitive.” I can use many software applications effectively despite never having read the manuals. Fusion 360 (and perhaps CAD software in general?) is not designed for the way people naturally think. There is certainly much that could be done do improve it.

[tommVS2MB]

First, I recommend that you avoid trying to build a marble music machine as your first use: Marbles and Music

Second, I recommend you breakdown and maybe write down a list of basic operations you use. Then one-by-one perform them in Fusion 360 and master them.

Then, survey the capabilities listed in the menus. When you find an unfamilar but promising one explore it and master it.  The forum and youtube can both be sources of info.

Then, use the operations you have master in a combination to create a familiar object that you may have created in another tool.

Now, you are prepared for a new project of modest complexity.

What this flow does is leverage your past experience to guide you through the a limited set of  F360 capabilities/possibilities then expands your skills into the nooks of Fusion 360.

Best wishes, Tom Meyers

Tom 

[Anonymous]

As another new user - I've got to say this is a fantastically useful thread.

And that marble machine is quite something... : )

[cekuhnen]

@MadManScott

So regarding moving sketches in Fusion and your complaint (Maya Blender Alias user here myself) Fusion sketch is totally different than in Maya Blender Alias.

I struggled with this first too.

In Maya and co you use move rotate scale etc for everything (geometry and sketches).

But Fusion like SolidWorks is a parametric modeler where sketches are not dump as in Maya Alias Rhino but interactive. So you use constraints like angle between to lines to define the rotation, dimension the length of a line etc.

That you have to understand first!

So it is not hard it is just a different concept.

[ToddHarris7556]

I'm not sure that any CAD program will align with 'the way that people naturally think' - i.e. I think it's reasonable to expect some investment in education and gaining experience. 

I'm not sure that's any different than design in general, is it? I wouldn't expect that someone could just jump into product design, machine design, rendering, or dynamic simulation without actually studying the subject.

In terms of being easy, I guess it's all a matter of perspective. For those that came from manual drafting, AutoCad's DOS prompt / command line interface was amazing. To grow from 2D CAD to 3D solid-modeling was huge. A cloud-based program (flashbacks to loading 30+ floppy discs) that does modeling, CAM, rendering, drawings, animation and stress analysis all with just a few clicks? I find it amazingly easy - relative to where I've been. 

I'm not suggesting it's perfect. Sure, there's room for improvement. There are a few funny quirks here and there, but the concepts and general modeling approaches are pretty consistent among most professional-grade packages. And it does take some time to understand the tool.   

[TheCADWhisperer]

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@cekuhnen wrote:

In Maya and co you use move rotate scale etc for everything (geometry and sketches).

But Fusion like SolidWorks is a parametric modeler where sketches 

That you have to understand first!

So it is not hard it is just a different concept.

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I didn't bother to read this entire thread - so apologies if I missed something.

Two words - Sketch Blocks.

Not a new concept.

[cekuhnen]

I see your point - Fusion by far is not a complete software product like SW or Inventor for various reasons like age and software focus.

Fusion is a healthy mix of many things.
Take it or leave it or wait till it has what you are missing.

Many love onshape - each time for academic reason I try it I am stunned what I cannot do as easily as in Fusion.

[dieselguy65]

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@TrippyLighting wrote:

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@docara wrote:

... usually resulting in a slap down by trippylighting Lol ...

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Oh, come on now 😉

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i to have experienced these minor slap downs.

and honestly they have been very helpful, if you take the advice and apply it.

there is some serious knowledge here in this forum.

just use what they give you, and learn from it

[tommVS2MB]

MadMan:

How is it going?

What have you done to resolve the problems you had?

You got a lot of good advice.

What should we tell the next victim?

Tom Meyers

[Anonymous]

Even though others, obviously more advanced users of Fusion360, are correct that one should start off with learning and training before trying to work with this very precise software. I totally understand you, and this is why I'm replying to this rather old topic.

In my opinion there still is a huge gap between Fusion360's on first sight clean and handy seeming user interface and how user friendly it is in reality. It's lacking in communicating how it works. For example, you tried to move a rectangle, because it simply suggested you that this could work, even though the construction was fixed in its position. Fusion just did and moved nothing, it doesn't warn you, it doesn't prompt anything. To be honest I first worked with Rhino, which is function wise not comparable. Rhino is a good example for a real usability and interface horror show with interface design from past ages. But still it assists you in getting things done correctly.

I'm leaving this comment to appeal to the UI and UX designers of Fusion to make the software more intuitive and self-explaining where possible. If the interface promotes simplicity, the usability should follow.

[veso58S5W]

I don't know who you are, BUT.....

Whatever you are saying is BS.
Fusion is one of the easiest programs to learn (beside Ashlar).  
Talking about CAM part, I make molds without any issue with the program. What you are talking about G28 is completely NOT CORRECT. I have posts with several tools, never ever had any issue with Return to Zero command.
ARE YOU FOR REAL? 

This forum is intended fo users of this program, if they have normal problems. What you have is not normal. Buy SolidWorks, go there. Please 🙂

[tommVS2MB]

I didn't write that whiny post.

[StephenCim-001]

I'm only a newbie when it comes to F360 , but it's worth learning to use.

I have no training in product design or CAD, 5 years ago was force to learn CAD to help my wife design jewellery  , started with Moi3D, which I still think is the easiest CAD software to drive and used ViaCAD for to cover some of the features missing in Moi3D.   Then had a play with Jewelry CAD Dream which was a bunch of plugins that run on top of ZWSoft ZW3D Which was great but the US$5000+ price tag put it beyond my reach.

F360 is very similar to ZW3D, less the price tag,  Free for small business is a good price 🙂

I can design a ring has a size 9 knowing  that if I then need to resize it to a size 12 it will take less then a 1 min. 

But I find with F360 I need to have a clear idea of what I want to design before I start, thought out starting point make it easier to step back and make changes and if I find a design is starting to get out of hand I just start again rather then try to fix a model that is just not working .

Also what really helps me to learn, s to go back to my older design and clean them up and found sometimes I was able  to reduce the number of step by 60% .

Yes F360 has many features missing but  I really enjoy using it 🙂  ( P.S I have never used CAM 🙂 )

Cheers, Stephen

[lichtzeichenanlage]

By looking at Moi3d I would call it a CAD system. The call it 3d modelling / CAD system and my guess is, that they've added CAD because of marketing reasons. 

[cekuhnen]

@StephenCim-001 

I read through your comments and feel one things should be pointed out.

There are two ways to model: Freeform/DirectModeling and Parametric Modeling.

While often Parametric is hailed as super interactive the truth is sometimes very different.

With freeform/DirectModeling like in Moi/Rhino/FusionDM you can adjust what ever when ever manually.

And big design changes like changing how a surface bends or a loft is constructed often results into removing the surface and rebuilding it.

With Parametric modeling I can change a sketch and have the loft automatically updated including all following modeling commands.

And that is also were you correctly identified the pitfall is. The bigger a timeline / construction tree the more complex it will be to correctly adjust the features or how a design is made and in cases also with Parametric modeling resulting into having to restart.

In a design process you have an ideation and manufacturing part and for each you should use carefully the correct approach.

DirectModeling as well as Parametric modeling are both great approaches but it does not relieve a designer from exploring the idea or preventing the possibility to having to rebuild a cad model after you have learned how to build it better or during the exploration realized you used the wrong approach.

Sketching or making basic explorative 3D models really help too to minimize the risk of encountering a modeling restart.

[cekuhnen]

@lichtzeichenanlage  CAD is often a synonym used when describing 2D or 3D computer modeling for design engineering and manufacturing.

Personally I am pretty tired of this CAD word. It is outdated - computer aided design - everything today is computer based like Illustrator Photoshop MS Word ...

[lichtzeichenanlage]

That's a good point. 

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@cekuhnen wrote:

@lichtzeichenanlage  CAD is often a synonym used when describing 2D or 3D computer modeling for design engineering and manufacturing.

Personally I am pretty tired of this CAD word. It is outdated - computer aided design - everything today is computer based like Illustrator Photoshop MS Word ...

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[laughingcreek]

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@cekuhnen wrote:

@lichtzeichenanlage  CAD is often a synonym used when describing 2D or 3D computer modeling for design engineering and manufacturing.

Personally I am pretty tired of this CAD word. It is outdated - computer aided design - everything today is computer based like Illustrator Photoshop MS Word ...

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a fun tid bit.  CAD use to mean computer added DRAFTING.  This was back in the day when there was a hard line between the engineer/designer and the draft-person.

[StephenCim-001]

I totally agree,  both Freeform/DirectModeling and Parametric Modeling are valid, needed, used , they each have their strengths and weakness and I try to use both. I Hope Autodesk  continue to improve FreeForm modelling in F360 , Would love to just use 1 APP for all aspects of my designs 🙂  Would love to see some of the AutoDesk Meshmixer's tools directly implemented in F360 🙂

[Anonymous]

So anyway, how do you change the diameter of a cylinder...