Symetry tool has issues or something

[eric_strebel]

Basically I can not reliably select the handles on a point to make them symmetrical around a center line. It will not let me select the second handle no mater if I hold the command button or any other button, it worked once for the other point that touches the circle, but I can not get it to work for any other points. I have fought this battle several times before......

[jeff_strater]

What I found is that if you activate the spline handles, the symmetry is automatically applied to both ends of the handle.  Try just selecting the handle, right click, and say "activate handle".  You should see the symmetry is applied to the handle, if there is already a symmetry constraint on the point.

(splines have some issues with displaying the activated handles, as you can see).

The way handles work in splines today is subtle.  Until they are activated, they are not really there as far as the solver goes, so you cannot constrain to them, etc.  You can either explicitly activate them, or implicitly activate them (by dragging, dimensioning, constraining, etc).  Activated handles are shown in blue, inactive handles in green.  This is an area that we are starting a project to improve.  It is confusing and hard to use today.

Jeff

[Anonymous]

Sorry for being off topic but I wanted to throw this out there. @jeff_strater your explanations of how tools work (such as splines in this thread) have been extremely helpful to me for understanding how to correctly use these tools. So I just wanted to say thank you for your helpful explanations and I am looking forward to learning more!

[HughesTooling]

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@jeff_strater wrote:

What I found is that if you activate the spline handles, the symmetry is automatically applied to both ends of the handle.  

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This puzzles me a bit. Each handle is symmetrical around the spline point already, you can't have the handle longer on one side. So if the spline points are symmetrical around the vertical line only one handle point needs a symmetry constraint.

As a test I deleted all the constraint on a pair of handles and tried adding them back and you can't as you get an over constrained error. So if the mirror command is creating points on both ends of the handles will that over constrained state cause problem at some point?

Mark

[eric_strebel]

Ok, I am not able to get them to activate then together to apply the symmetry tool by right clicking. I must be missing something here.

Can you be so kind as to lay out the steps in detail so I can follow.

I want to have two splines with all the point symmetrical around a central axis, so that if I move one point or the handles on that point they are mirrored on the opposite side of the central axis. Just like you have it set up. This helps in making symmetrical objects of course.

BTW, you are correct this is not an easy thing to set up. A more consistent UI with the rest of the tools would be extremely useful helpful.

@jeff_strater

[TrippyLighting]

I personally avoid complex symmetries in sketches such as mirroring a spline whenever I can.

Just mirror the solid body.

[eric_strebel]

@TrippyLighting that can be my fall back plan in case I can not get this to work out. I would rather have this worked out at the root level if I can. Plus I want to figure this out. Seems simple enough, just have to learn the trick...

[HughesTooling]

One thing i found is if you click the spline point the handles should appear but they are green and you can't add symmetry because you can't pick the second handle end point. What i had to do was select and drag the handles then they turn blue and I could select the ends for constraints.

Mark

[eric_strebel]

@HughesToolingMark, that is very useful tip, that allowed me to get the last handles to be symmetrical. It should not be that hard @jeff_strater

Still hoping you post a more detailed step by step, hope this get updated in the very near future..

Thanks in advance

[jeff_strater]

Sorry for the delay...  Here is a screencast showing the path through the spline minefield that works for me:

I found bugs even making this video.  It works in this workflow.  But, if you activate the handles first, then adding symmetry at the point does not make the handles symmetric.  Lots of bugs about the display of handles.

I freely will admit that interacting with these handles is not easy or discoverable.  We are planning on addressing some of that very soon.

Jeff

[eric_strebel]

Ok, that's not what I did, but that works too.

I feel  the tool should work the same way as the symmetry works with the points, but just clicking the handles you want after the symmetry tool is selected.

Perhaps a pop up that allows you to select the points of the handles or both would be useful.

@jeff_straterthanks for making the video.