Selection problems in a fairly simple model

[laroot]

The attached model is my 6th iteration of an exercise to get experience with 2D Design.  Each time I’ve gotten closer by eliminating mistakes in the model’s organization and my practice.  The 5th iteration was close, but I was getting selection problems that I didn’t understand.  I realized that I wasn’t adequately checking and testing a sketch before I went on to the next feature.  So this time I’m checking as I go.  I ran into my selection problem on the 3rd sketch (brackets and vine), which lays out the central vine and two “brackets.”

I drew the brackets.  I then drew a fit point spline for the vine’s right side and offset the spline for the vine’s left side.  Finally, I trimmed the left side’s end after it met the bracket. 

What I don’t understand:

The 2nd sketch lays out construction lines for the border; with dimensions, it’s fully constrained.  In the 3rd sketch, I’ve added lines over the construction lines to isolate the border.  The border appears to be a fully constrained area, but, when I try to select it, I get a plane over the model’s entire surface.  Why can’t I select it?

Although I can select the left, belly up lobe, I cannot select the right, belly down lobe.  When I try, instead of selecting the lobe it again selects a plane covering the whole surface.  What is the plane and why is it selected instead of the lobe? 

Why don’t I have the same problem with the belly up lobe? 

When the brackets and vine sketch is active, attempts to select an area select a plane over the whole sketch.

Can you speculate what I’m doing to create these problems or how to avoid doing so?

I would sincerely appreciate any suggestions or cites that you could offer.

Very respectfully,
Larry

[jhackney1972]

You can use the Screencast method of select multiple overlapping Profiles.  Hover, left click hold and pass over the available profiles and select the one you desire.  In the Screencast, they do not highlight but they will for you.  

One thing you can do to prevent any of this is to "Consume" the finished sketch with a feature before moving on the the next sketch.  You can still use any previous sketch in a new sketch even after it is consumed.  Just turn it back on and use the Project command.

[laroot]

John,

Thank You!  You're helping me progress!!

Can you clarify what  you mean by "consume" the sketch?

I'd been trying to use the screedcast method that you describe, but the only way that I'd found to identify what a listed feature was was to delete it and then restore it.  Very awkward.  I'd NOT noticed the change in tone that you mention.  I just went back and tried it again with some success.  For example, I've seen that the unknown plane that is frequently selected is the decal even though the decal's display is turned off.  (I wonder if I can glue any of my hair back on?)  I hope that problem goes away when I've completed sketches for the rest of the features on the decal and can delete it.

But when I highlight many of the features in the list nothing changes in the display.  Is there a way to identify those?

Might you have any thoughts on why the border won't select?  When I click and hold on the left most vertical line (part of the border's outside boundary) it shows 5 features:  2 sketch lines, two profiles, and the decal.  Highlighting either of the profiles causes the model to change to a pale green tint.  Highlighting the decal (the "cropped panel half plan") causes the model to change to a light blue.  So I infer that the two listed profiles are not the decal.  I can guess that one of the profiles is the surface of the board created by the extrude.  And a even less confident guess would be that the remaining profile is the plane created in the first sketch.  

Double checking my draft post, I went back and clicked on and held the left most vertical line.  This time the list only contained two features, both of them sketch lines.  Repeating the steps gave lists that alternate between the 5 feature and 2 feature lists.  Is the 2 feature list a continuation of the 5?

But I have no idea why I can select one lobe but not the other.

I do like Fusion 360 much more than Sketchup, which I'd been using.  But, oh, it's an interesting program (in the sense of the old curse "may you live in interesting times").

Very respectfully,

Larry

[jhackney1972]

What I mean by "Consumed" is very simple.  If you sketch a simple box, that is an un-consumed sketch.  If you extrude that box into a solid, the sketch becomes invisible, that is a consumed sketch.  It is consumed by the extrusion.  You can turn it back on for further use if need but since is has been consumed, it no longer clouds your view of other profiles for the next feature.  So if you try to do sketch, feature, sketch, feature, sketch, feature you will only have one profile to deal with at a time.  If you do need to have multiple sketch profiles visible at one time use the left click hold method to display all "below" the cursor and then you can just slide your cursor between them and left click on the one you want to use.  I am real sorry Screencast kills the highlighting but here is a screen capture of me doing the process on your multi-profile sketch.  Notice I am hovering over an area that has 3 separate profiles.  I have my cursor over the second and it is highlighted in the background.  If I were to click, I could extrude instantly.

.

You can use this technique on anything, sketch lines, profiles, faces, components, joints, etc.

If you will notice, in the attached model you can select both side of your "lobe" and the border of the complete piece.  You had a broken line in the right side lobe and you had two sketches making up the profile of the border.  One had some lines, the other had "construction lines".  Profiles do not propagate across multiple sketches.  Try this test for yourself, in a new model, start a sketch and make a square, finish the sketch.  On the same origin plane, make a second sketch overlapping the first as shown below, finish the sketch.  Now try and extrude the "common" small area, indicated by the red arrow, you cannot.  This was your issue on your border sketch.

You also need to learn the "divide and conquer" method of find the broken sketch when you cannot get the profile to develop.  I would do a Screencast but since it ruins highlighting, it is not worthwhile.  Basically you sketch a long line that "crosses" your sketch, making sure it is at an angle and the ends do not touch any other entities, in other words not sketch constraints are applied to the line.  You can then drag it slowly across your sketch, when is closes off the profile area it will highlight.  You do this until you find the break or other issue in your sketch.  I will do a MP4 movie if you really do not understand.  This is how I found the break in your right side lobe.  Model attached but correct yours to learn, use mine for reference.

[laroot]

John, you’re being wonderfully helpful! 

“Profiles do not propagate across multiple sketches.”  Oh, boy; I missed that in the documentation, and it explains many of the problems that I’d had in my earlier iterations.   I just drew a new rectangle in the third sketch over the rectangles in the earlier sketches and I can now easily select the border.  Cooking with gas!

I’ve successfully used the divide and conquer approach in different models.  But, in earlier versions of this model, I’d tried it without success:  I couldn’t find the break no matter how finely I divided it down.  (I wonder if I’d understood the click and hold better at that time then I might have found a problem in stacked elements.)  So, anyway, I hadn’t tried it in this version, and, when I try it now, I don’t understand the results: 

• I click and hold on the right lobe that I cannot select
• Depth lists three features:  the decal and the planes from the first two sketches – the profile that I want is not on the list
• I draw a horizontal line across the lobe
• I click and hold in the lobe beneath the line and depth now lists 4 features – the lower half of the profile that I want is now listed; I can click on that profile and select it
• So I escape and click and hold in the lobe above the line, and depth also lists 4 features – the upper half of the profile is listed and I can click on it and select it
• I infer from those facts that, if both the upper and lower halves are OK, that the profile must be OK and I delete the troubleshooting line – I’m now back to depth only listing 3 features – neither part of the profile that I want is listed and I cannot select to lobe
• I repeat all this with lines higher and lower within the lobe and get the same result
• I’m confused  (No, not your fault!)

Very respectfully,
Larry

[jhackney1972 · Accepted solution]

I am determined to help you get over your issue with the issues you are facing.  I created an MP4 this time so you can see the highlighting.  It is placed in my Dropbox account and you can view it simply by selecting this link.  Please note the position of my cursor when I do the left click hold to get the entities below the cursor.  This is what I do not think you understand, you cursor placement is critical to what you get.

[laroot]

John,

I'm a casual user.  When I first started with Fusion 360 several years ago (I'm trying to relearn it now after more than a year's absence), there used to be a button to record "kudos," but that is no longer on my version.  If it were, I would enthusiastically click it. 

I am sincerely grateful for the time and patience that you've invested in helping me.  I just hope that I've ve not frustrated you:  you're too valuable.

Thank you.

VERY respectfully,
Larry