Patch Environment Design Help - Guitar Neck

[oldtbone55]

Hello Out there,

I've been working in the Sculpt environment on a guitar neck but ran into some issues and am now trying to design it in the  Patch environment. I'm actually hoping that I can get some of it done in Patch and then switch to Sculpt for the finishing touch's. I've been able to create the surface bodies for most of the neck and headstock but there is an area where they join that needs to transition smoothly and I don't know if it can be done in Patch. The area is on the underside of the neck where the headstock and neck meet (it's called a volute). How should I move forward from here? I've attached my file.

@jeffstrater

@cekuhnen

@Anonymous

[SaeedHamza]

Hi,

Is it something like this connection that you're trying to achieve?

Regards

Saeed

[TrippyLighting]

You really need to learn to be precise in your sketching and also to fully constrain and dimension your sketches. Again you have a good number of sketches that are totally undefined.

Lofting does not work if there are gaps in the rails as seen in this closeup screenshot. 

[oldtbone55]

Hello Saed, yes, that is sort of what I'm trying to achieve. The transition has to be very smooth from the neck to the headstock. I've attached a screenshot of what it should look like. It seems that I have other issues with my sketches that are causing me to have problems.

Thanks.

[oldtbone55]

Peter, I thank you for your reply. I have no idea what part of the neck your screen shot is referring to. If you could point me in the right direction as to where this is and give me a couple of examples of the issues you've mentioned I would really appreciate it. I think I've been pretty precise at dimensioning all of my sketches and I do realize that there may be some that aren't fully constrained. I'm just trying to see if using Patch and Sculpt together can make it a little easier to achieve what I want. This is a huge learning curve for me as I've never worked with CAD software so please try to be gentle on me.

Your patience is greatly appreciated.

[jeff_strater]

Hi @oldtbone55,

If it's any consolation, the two guitar neck transitions (from the neck to the headstock, and from the neck to the heel) are fairly complex geometry.  I've struggled a lot with them, and have not yet discovered the perfect recipe.  Loft is the correct tool.  But, getting the right combinations of profiles, rails, and tangency conditions has proven to be difficult.

Here is another thread where @Anonymous has been struggling with this exact problem:  best-practices.  I think he is developing some good approaches to these transitions.

Jeff

[TrippyLighting]

---

@jeff_strater wrote:

Hi @oldtbone55,

If it's any consolation, the two guitar neck transitions (from the neck to the headstock, and from the neck to the heel) are fairly complex geometry.  

Jeff

---

Ohh, totally agree. If you've never worked with lofts in the patch environment it can be quite daunting and the loft tool can  be friend or foe. It has a very schizophrenic nature 😉

I'll create a screencast later.

[oldtbone55]

Thanks Jeff. Although I was able to create the neck using t-splines but I ran into a real problem when I tried to add the slot for the truss rod. I had problems with the sketch as well as the push/pull command and got a real funky outcome that I haven't been able to fix. That's one reason I thought I'd try using Patch. It's also a good learning experience. The more parts of Fusion I can learn about the better I'll be able to decide what works best where. Will check out the references you provided for sure. I'm attaching the file I was having problems with before I switched to Patch if you care to have a look at it. I couldn't create a toolpath for the slot.

Thanks again.

[oldtbone55]

Thank you kindly Peter. Sincerely appreciate all of the help you've given me. I think it's very important that I try to understand the different environments in Fusion and what they can accomplish and when to work in one or several to achieve your goals. After all, isn't that why they call this software "Fusion"?

Big Thanks!

[Anonymous]

@oldtbone55, I too am exploring how Fusion can improve my existing manufacturing methods. Lofting a face is possible without actually making a full body in the Mesh environment. You can see some approaches in this thread:

https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/fusion-360-design-validate/lofting-error-message/m-p/7256621#M126144

I have found for practice it is much easier to make small idealized sections of neck shapes and explore all the options before making a whole neck. I have been able to put truss rods from both the front and back in my Basic Electric neck. I'll look at your file as soon as my Fusion goes back on line.

[SaeedHamza]

Hi,

This is the closest I got after editing some profiles to get a smooth transition as much as possible, is it close?  ( file is attached )

Regards

Saeed

[oldtbone55]

@Anonymous, thanks for your input. I've just finished going through your post that Jeff referenced. You've got a lot more of Fusion down than I do and going through your design thought process was helpful. It's good to get different viewpoints and options for basically getting to the same place, just in a different way. I had created a neck in Fusion using t-splines but ran into some difficulties which got me thinking about approaching my neck design in a different way. Hence the reason for my post. Thanks to your post and the videos that Jeff provided I've got a much better understanding of the Loft function and use of the Project command. Really glad that you chimed in. If you're interested in looking at the neck I did using t-splines just look at my earlier reply to Jeff where I attached it.  Thanks for providing the link also. 

Cheers!

[oldtbone55]

@SaeedHamza. thanks kindly for working on the file. I can't open it yet due to the shortage but will get back to you after I do. Your help is greatly appreciated.

Cheers!

[cekuhnen]

@oldtbone55

ah sorry for the late reply.

oddly my name as you entered it was not flagged and thus did not trigger a notification on my side!

did you figure everything out?

[oldtbone55]

@cekuhnen thanks for your reply. No, haven't figured it out yet. I'm trying to determine what the best approach to doing this would be. I've been reading the links that Jeff and colisnk have provided to try and understand lofting better and also the use of rails. I was able to make the neck using t-splines but then ran into a problem I couldn't resolve. I'm attaching the file currently being discussed if you care to have a look at it. I think I need to back up a bit and start fresh with my sketches. If you've got any suggestions on how I should proceed please let me know.

Cheers!

P.S. The first file is the neck I did using t-splines. The second I attempted to do in the Patch environment using Lofts.

[cekuhnen]

@oldtbone55

Oh boy your TS model kills me 😉 too dense too many faces so much edge creasing hahaha

here to patch vids - sorry wife sleeps no sexy voice from me 😉

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Byzv_NlyKp_2ekgxTFhlQXRmTEk/view

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Byzv_NlyKp_2RTFIel94dl9wUEE/view

this is a pretty tricky transition to do and I hope I understood your intention correctly

your TS model I would dumb - way to crazy.

however You can model most of the surfaces but not connect them like the under side the top side and such

but use the trim tool to trim the model as you need it or radically simplify the model 

the neck for example does not need all those loop cuts !!!!

[cekuhnen]

here some TS ideas

you can see how brutally simple my mesh geometry is !!!

I attached the OBJ mesh - import it with meters as unite scale!

[cekuhnen]

@oldtbone55

There is also a way to use T-Splines with matching abilities but this requires very good input surfaces.

In the end in such a case we are forcing the surface into restriction and that can work when the input conditions allow it.

As you can see the center area is not ideal in the TS mesh.

Maybe after all it might make sense to surface the complete object via T-Splines as a compromise.

Fusion lacks some surfacing tools but as simple as this object looks it is a pretty complex task too!

[cekuhnen]

@Anonymous @oldtbone55 @TrippyLighting @jeff_strater

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Byzv_NlyKp_2T0I1bms4Skd1Wlk/view

[Anonymous]

That Zebra analysis is better than anything we are getting. I'll have to look at it more closely in Fusion. The drawing would not "feel" right in a player's hands but the method is getting us closer to the ideal.