Model Not Laying Flat On Plane

[cmoher3]

Perpetual Newbie here. I have drawn an "L" shaped bracket , replicated three times and exported to Dremel Cloud for printing on a 3D printer. Unfortunately the slicer software is not putting the model flat on the bed and instead trying to print it at an angle with supports (scaffolding) under the part not flat on the bed. I'm told, by Dremel , that my Exported part, from Fusion is obviously not flat then. As much as I appreciate the transparent planes in Fusion, it leaves me feeling completely disoriented and unable to tell what is what, in terms of up/down and all points in between. Most importantly, I can't tell when my models are sitting properly on a plane. Is there a tool that will position or inform when the part is seated properly on the X plane ? Thanks.

att: Wedge2

[laughingcreek]

Any decent 3d printing utility will have a tool to set a face on the build table.  if dremel's customer service doesn't know how to tell you to do that, then you need call back and talk to a different person.  or maybe they have a forum like this one.  If their software doesn't have that capability, then you need to run away from it right now and use something else. 

Your can tell if your model is positioned how you want with the "inspect tool".  I've checked, and the face is indeed a flat plane, and setting on the xz origin plane.

of course, the best way to be sure is to model it that way.  your modeling process is rather convoluted.  and as a side note, the move command should never (almost never) be used when in parametric mode (timeline turned on).  reserve that for Direct Modeling(time line turned off).

Attached is how I would approach this part.  you might notice there aren't nearly as many features in the time line.  Note-if you want to change any of the dims for the part, just edit the dimensions in the sketch.

[Johnc911]

You can use Inspect->Measure and choose the bottom plane of your body and the plane to compare to (in this case the origin plane) to see if the part is at an angle.

[jodom4 · Accepted solution]

Hey cmoher3,

I can say with complete confidence that there's nothing wrong with your model. The bottom face of the bracket is flat, parallel to the ZX plane, and at a right angle to the wall.

I assume the trouble you're having is that the Dremel slicer expects Z to be the up-axis, while the up-axis in your model is Y. To change that, click on your name in the upper right corner, the Preferences, then change the Modeling Orientation to Z-Up on the opening page.

[cmoher3]

Thanks John. As I had to get on with this project , I went ahead and played with it for awhile, prior to your reply,  and then Exported it again, as an .stl.

I thought I had it all sorted out, but once again, when it landed in the Dremel slicer, it was 90 degrees out on orientation. Since Dremel had a rotate function, I fixed it there and resat it on the printing plane. It appears to be printing normally now.

I'm sure your assumptions are correct and no doubt the fix you recommended would have worked. Can you please tell me how you were able to tell that it was flat against a plane and, in cases where it might not be, how to fix it , such that it is ? 

Thank you.

[cmoher3]

Dremel does have a feature to lay it flat on the bed but it can't tell which face the user wants to lay flat. so, if I bring this in from Fusion and it's turned by say 80 degrees, it has no way of knowing that this isn't the way I want it, so it lays the part on the bed, but on it's side or head or on an angle. My problem is spotting the part as being disoriented while still in Fusion. With these virtual clear planes, I can't tell what is what. I could be upside down, for all I know. I feel like I need a bubble in the drawing, to know which way is up. 

[cmoher3]

I tried to do that, by first selecting the faces I want anchored down , then ...... ?????? I could not find the "origin" except in a menu off to the left, to reference the measurement to. 

[cmoher3]

"I assume the trouble you're having is that the Dremel slicer expects Z to be the up-axis, while the up-axis in your model is Y. To change that, click on your name in the upper right corner, the Preferences, then change the Modeling Orientation to Z-Up on the opening page."

Apparently so. I tried to rotate it out of that situation and ended up about 10 degrees off the plane , failing to notice until half way through the print. I don't want to eye-ball this stuff as I may be out by 1 degree and not catch it. As I mentioned in another post, I appreciate how pilot's get disoriented and are cautioned to trust their instruments. Because Fusion's planes are transparent, I'm losing the bit about which way is up. 

[Johnc911 · Accepted solution]

Here's how you can tell for sure.

Inspect->measure

Choose the origin XZ plane as Selection 1

Choose your object's bottom surface as Selection 2

You can see that it shows 0.0 degrees.

If you have it at an angle on the part it will show up here.

[cmoher3]

If there is one thing that is messing me up on Fusion it''s the disoriented feeling i get using it. When my components or parts thereof end up in a netherworld having fallen through the drawing plane I'm wondering if I've landed at Alice in Wonderlands Tea Party. I also get the feeling that I'm trying to draw something that is chaotically spinning in all dimensions through space. The drawing plane defies gravity too. I can't get anything to lie flat !! 

I'm not making science fiction movies but real world parts !!

Can someone please tell me how to turn the "through the looking glass" half of this program off or how I can get grounded with my drawings ?

[davebYYPCU]

You can’t live long without working out that little spinning grey box in the top right corner of the window.  The labels on it mean the same for your model.  Navigation Cube.

Click on a face, that is not facing you, the cube and your model become orientated to your request.  There is a right click menu in that cube to make views permanent, but for now just start clicking on the cubes various selections, corners, corner points, and or faces.

Click on the house, your default home position will be presented.

Might help.....

[jeff_strater]

@cmoher3 - I'm not really sure what you are talking about here.  Can you provide a screencast of what you are seeing?  I wonder if you are annoyed by the "auto look at" option in sketch:

This is the preference that rotates the view to look at the sketch plane when you first start a sketch, then restores the view when you exit sketch.  I also dislike that behavior, so I have it switched off,

[cmoher3]

"You can’t live long without working out that little spinning grey box in the top right corner of the window."

I'm using that a lot more now, with an extra measure of care to use the 90 degree movements more so than free revolutions, which seem to get me in trouble.

I was basically making a part that ends as an arch. I'm trying to get it to lay flat for 3D printing. After it being twirled around during it's evolution, I was finding tips of it had appeared to have fallen through the plane I was hoping it would lay flat against. It was also unlevel with no flat planes on it for which I could use as a reference to relevel the part and pull it out of the plane it had pierced.

I'm long past those moments , so I'm afraid I can't post images.

I started the drawings all over again and was just a lot more careful in how I rendered them, avoiding the scenario to begin with.

[laughingcreek · Accepted solution]

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@cmoher3 wrote:

Dremel does have a feature to lay it flat on the bed but it can't tell which face the user wants to lay flat. so, if I bring this in from Fusion and it's turned by say 80 degrees, it has no way of knowing that this isn't the way I want it, so it lays the part on the bed, but on it's side or head or on an angle. My problem is spotting the part as being disoriented while still in Fusion. With these virtual clear planes, I can't tell what is what. I could be upside down, for all I know. I feel like I need a bubble in the drawing, to know which way is up. 

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I got around to checking out Dremel's software.  While it does have a free move type tool, it doesn't have a tool to directly lay a face down on the build plate.  What I mean is you select a face, regardless of orientation,  and it lays that face on the build table.  A tool like this is precisely for when you don't know what angle the face is at.  This is the first 3d printing slicer software I have encountered with out this tool.

fusion has the align tool that does the same thing inside fusion.  not that I'm advocating for it's use, it should rarely be needed. 

Did you look at the model I posted for you in post #2?  If you export it and bring into the dremel software it loads onto the build plate flat and properly orientated.  there was no need to do any further positioning of it in fusion b/c it was constructed where it need to be from the beginning. I do have Z up as my default, so that probably helped.

[cmoher3]

laughing creek ... It's all good now. Got it sorted out thanks to all of you.

[Anonymous]

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@laughingcreek wrote:

as a side note, the move command should never (almost never) be used when in parametric mode (timeline turned on).  reserve that for Direct Modeling(time line turned off).

---

Wondering if you could expand on the above?

After reading it I was wondering what other options there were for moving bodies and components.

I must admit to currently using the Move command almost exclusively other than Joints.

I tried the Align command and found it to be very useful and similar to Joint without the joint!

It also shows in the Time Line although I can see by using the Move command with multiple moves and rotates there are multiple Time Line entries whereas the Align command does the move and any rotates for just the one Time Line entry. (I think)

What else have I been missing?

[cmoher3]

I went through Preferences line by line and could not see an option for Modeling Orientation to set Z Up.

[laughingcreek · Accepted solution]

[cmoher3]

This problem has come back to haunt me again and this time I was not able to fix it, simply because I was unable to select the plane I aspired to land my parts on. I therefore couldn't measure relative to the plane.

I made a hollow box and then split it near the top such that I have a perfectly fitting lid for the box. When i flipped that lid 180 degrees and placed it on the plane, beside the main box, I obviously did not get it sitting flat on the plane. When I sent it to my 3d printer slicer, I did select "On bed" but the lid did not end up perfectly on the bed so I ended up with a patchwork of webbed supports for a finish on the lid top (formerly bottom during printing). Laughing Stock, you comment is interesting : "Any decent 3d printing utility will have a tool to set a face on the build table.........If their software doesn't have that capability, then you need to run away from it right now and use something else." Does Fusion not have a simple , single click remedy to get things sitting properly flat on planes ? 

[laughingcreek]

Yes, The "align" tool can be used to place a flat surface on one of the origin planes.

I can see in your stl model that the lid isn't sitting on the bed, but it's hard to say what happened with out looking at the fusion file.  I also noticed both the box and lid are made up of several separate overlapping solids.  Not sure why you modeled it that way, but I guess it should still print ok.

Are you using components? using joints on components would be another easy way to get things aligned.

Personally, I've never laid out a model for printing in the design software.  Of the thousand or so things I've printed, either on my own fdm printer or sent out to a professional print farm, that task has been done by the slicer software.  I downloaded the dremel software a while back, and it appears to have a very limited ability to arrange models on the build plate compared with slicers I have used, so I guess you are stuck with doing it with fusion (or getting a different slicer.  I use simplify 3d, which seems to work with the dremel machine)