Issue with Pin-slot and Vertical Slider

Issue with Pin-slot and Vertical Slider

gaidica
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Message 1 of 14

Issue with Pin-slot and Vertical Slider

gaidica
Participant
Participant

I'm not sure what's going on here. I can get multiple pin-slots to work but I'm trying to constrain the top plate to purely vertical motion with a slider joint but it results in an error.

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Accepted solutions (3)
1,147 Views
13 Replies
Replies (13)
Message 2 of 14

jhackney1972
Consultant
Consultant

Please attach your model.  Open in Fusion 360, select the File menu, then Export and save to your hard drive. Attach in a reply post.

John Hackney, Retired
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Message 3 of 14

gaidica
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Thanks, John. I've found enabling contact gets me half way there, not ideal!

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Message 4 of 14

jhackney1972
Consultant
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Accepted solution

You had an error in the Pin and Slot joint at the disc connection.  I broke the link to your one external file to make it so I could send a F3D file back.  Model is attached.

 

Edit: When the disc Slider Joint is in place, there needs to be a .1 mm offset between the surfaces of the connecting Pin and Slot joint.

 

Disc Movement.gif

John Hackney, Retired
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Message 5 of 14

gaidica
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Thanks so much. That was a tolerance I built in that I should probably remove since it's not obvious in these situations.

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Message 6 of 14

gaidica
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Participant

I'm back. I'm updating the design a little, I can figure out what the conflict is with the last pin-slot. I wish these errors were a little more helpful... I'm curious how you actually debug such a problem. Thanks,

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Message 7 of 14

jhackney1972
Consultant
Consultant
Accepted solution

There is a general rule, when applying a Pin-Slot Joint, is to select the Pin first.  This is difficult in your model due to the fact the mounting hole in on a Grounded Component and you cannot select a grounded component for your first joint selection. This rule helps to define the Slide motion to match the slot. The video will show you the method around this.  You might be interested in my Blog Article and Video on Pin-Slot Joints since you seem to use a lot of them.

 

If this video and model solves your issue, please mark this post as the "Accept Solution", you can have more than one Accept Solution per Forum post. 

John Hackney, Retired
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Message 8 of 14

gaidica
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Participant

Wow, thanks so much, John!

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Message 9 of 14

gaidica
Participant
Participant

I'm struggling to get back to my old working version. The tip about the pin really helped, now it's snagged on adding the cylindrical joint to get that upper disc to slide up and down?

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Message 10 of 14

jhackney1972
Consultant
Consultant

You must always remember if you use good joint practices and things still do not work, you need to suspect some misalignment in the system.  The misalignment, that had to be taken into account on the Pin-Slot Joint at the lift table may be small but in Fusion 360 it is a mile.  The value is noted in the screen capture below.  Model is attached as an F3D file as I broke the Hook external link.

 

Misalignment Error.jpg

Movement.gif

 

John Hackney, Retired
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Message 11 of 14

gaidica
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Thanks so much, John, this is one where I don't understand where that Z-offset originates or how you came up with that number? Do you have any tips for making this system less "sensitive"?
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Message 12 of 14

jhackney1972
Consultant
Consultant

Somewhere in your design process you introduced the small error in dimensions.  The way I found it is to add the Joints that are not part of the motion chain first.  In this case I took off the problematic Pin-Slot Joint and added the Slider Joint between the table and the stationary post.  Next, I decided the two points that I would use for the Pin-Slot Joint and, using the Measure tool, found the very small misalignment between the center of the pin and the center of the slot.  I am grateful is was only in one direction!  I then simply added it very small misalignment into the Joint Offset.

 

You asked if you could make Fusion 360 less sensitive, the answer is NO and you do not want to do it even if you could.  Precision design and manufacture is at the heart of all machinery and you could never achieve it without the accuracy Fusion 360 offers.  I designed machinery, most of my working life, and on a lot of interacting parts the tolerance of fit was in the 0.0001" to make the machine function smoothly.

 

My advise is to model all your components with a reference to the model Origin, if not right on top of it, and you will have the automatic precision you need.

 

John Hackney, Retired
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Message 13 of 14

gaidica
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I'm still having a hard time finding the source of error. For example, all I did was adjust the diameter of the middle shaft and it broke my cylinder joint. I just don't understand if I'm using exact dimensions (eg, 4mm) how error accumulates, and in the attached example, why center-point joints seem to fail without indication of the error? Thanks again,

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Message 14 of 14

jhackney1972
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Consultant
Accepted solution

You have to take our time and measure back until you find the place where the misalignment was introduced.  It took me awhile but in the video I show you where I found it and how I corrected the issue.  I again broke the link to the one external file so I could return it as a F3D file.

 

Do not forget to "Accept Solution" is this solves your issue, or ask additional questions if needed.

 

John Hackney, Retired
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