How do I make a knurled double sine surface around a cylinder?

How do I make a knurled double sine surface around a cylinder?

Anonymous
Not applicable
4,536 Views
17 Replies
Message 1 of 18

How do I make a knurled double sine surface around a cylinder?

Anonymous
Not applicable

Okay, so I am trying to design a gripped surface for a custom lightsaber, and I had an idea pop up but I don't know how to execute it in Fusion 360.  I don't know if it's been done before or if it is possible, but I was wondering if anyone could give it a go.

Imagine a double sine wave surface (like this) wrapped around a cylinder.  I want to be able to adjust the frequency and amplitude of the wave to get a nice tactile feel.  Finally, I want to add a knurling uniformly projected onto the surface to add grip.

Any ideas would be great.  Any solutions would be better!  If anything, it should be a fun little exercise for those who know the program better than I.

Thanks!

0 Likes
4,537 Views
17 Replies
Replies (17)
Message 2 of 18

etfrench
Mentor
Mentor

Create the sine waves on two sketches 90 degrees apart. In the Surface tools, use a sweep to complete the surface. Thicken when done.

doubleSine.JPGdoubleSine.JPG

p.s. Using control point splines  will allow you to modify it at will.

ETFrench

EESignature

0 Likes
Message 3 of 18

TrippyLighting
Consultant
Consultant

On a flat surface I'd proceed with the method @etfrench has shown.

However, in a circular arrangement and particularly at different frequencies of the pattern I would not create this in Fusion 360 but in Blender making heavy use of the Array modifier.

The resulting quad-mesh can then be imported Into Fusion 360 and can then be converted into a T-Spline.

 

 

 

 


EESignature

0 Likes
Message 4 of 18

TrippyLighting
Consultant
Consultant

double sine texture.pngdouble sine texture.png

 

The above is a quad mesh exported from Blender as .obj and imported into Fusion 360. There is was converted into a T-Spline and then NURBS surface. While that sounds like quite a few steps, this can be modeled with T-Splines in Fusion 360 but is extremely tedious, non parametric work. Increasing the frequency and amplitude of the knurl will be a lot of tedious selection and scaling work. 

In Blender modeling this including some experimentation did not take longer than 10 minutes.

Once set up/ modifying the frequency and amplitude of the knurl is fully parametric.


EESignature

Message 5 of 18

chrisplyler
Mentor
Mentor

 

Maybe I misread his intent? I think he wants a bit larger pattern of waves on the cylinder, and then he wants a smaller knurl pattern on top of that.

 

 

0 Likes
Message 6 of 18

TrippyLighting
Consultant
Consultant

@chrisplyler wrote:

 

Maybe I misread his intent? I think he wants a bit larger pattern of waves on the cylinder, and then he wants a smaller knurl pattern on top of that.

 

 


Now that I've re-read the OP's post I believe you are correct. I've stopped halfway through.

Still IMHO Fusion 360is entirely the wrong software to do this. Even just with the software as shown above this is already quite complex geometry. When you add another finer layer of knurling on top of that  you'l have to deal with 10th of thousands of faces in a single object and even more mature CAD systems choke on that. 

 


EESignature

0 Likes
Message 7 of 18

Anonymous
Not applicable

I very much appreciate the help.  If there is a simple and efficient way of explaining how to replicate that, I am not familiar with Blender and that would be very helpful.  Also, I don't know if reducing the frequency and amplitude of the sine waves around the cylinder would affect the possibility of adding a knurling, but I plan on a shallower and less bumpy surface than the image above.  Thanks!

0 Likes
Message 8 of 18

TrippyLighting
Consultant
Consultant

Here is a very quick demo of how I created the model in the posted image.

I see that I forgot to record al the keyboard shortcuts I used but it should give you at least a basic understanding of how such things work in Blender.

You can see how incredibly little geometry I start out with, a quad face that I subdivide twice. The rest is patterning and a curve modifier to get this into the cylindrical shape.

If you pay attention to the upper bar in Blender you'll see that the quad mesh that I am exporting already has 3126 faces.  If I'd add enough geometry to add a knurl that would easily increase the polygon count to 30k 

In the end that knurling might not be within reach for Fusion 360.

 

 


EESignature

Message 9 of 18

etfrench
Mentor
Mentor

Here's a circular double sine done all in Fusion 360 using the same technique as in my first post.  The only hard part is determining the amplitude and drawing a circular pseudo sine wave.

Capture.JPGCapture.JPG

You will need a robust computer or lots of patience Smiley Happy

ETFrench

EESignature

Message 10 of 18

Anonymous
Not applicable

So I’ve settled for a simple knurling for my design because I need it done, but for education’s sake and maybe future projects, I want to see if it is still a possibility.  Here’s an idea (once again, without the knowledge of what is capable using modeling software).  Thinking of this mathematically, what if you started with the knurling rather than the wave and made a knurled cylinder.  Simplify the

model enough to keep its design but have as few vertices as possible and, therefore, fewer faces.  Then, as a function of the angle around the cylinder a given vertex is and its height (each a modified sine wave), translate the vertex outwards or inwards toward/away from the central axis on the cylinder.  If you merely move the vertices of an already constructed model it shouldn’t change the face or vertex count.  I know my computer can work with a knurling, so I know it would work with this shape.  I just don’t know if this method is feasible using common modeling programs.  I think it could be done mathematically using scripts with Unity’s engine, but I’m not sure.  Just a thought.

0 Likes
Message 11 of 18

chrisplyler
Mentor
Mentor

 

I've never used Blender or any other mesh modeller. But based on @TrippyLighting 's descriptions, it SOUNDS like something one of them could do. I've seen him vaguely describe "modifiers" and it sounds like they can be controlled by mathematical formulae. I'll leave it to him to answer for sure one way or the other.

 

If you plan to 3D print such an item, no problem. But if you plan to machine it - with each knurl pyramid pointing off in a different direction based on it's position on the underlying multi-directional sine wave pattern - good freaking luck because it's going to be a nightmare. I would settle for 4-axis milling the sine wave, then run a lathe knurl around it such that the knurl only hit the tops of the sine waves. Let it be smooth down in the valleys where your hand wouldn't have much contact anyway.

 

 

 

0 Likes
Message 12 of 18

TrippyLighting
Consultant
Consultant

In a nutshell the modifier stack in Blender works somewhat equivalent to the parametric timeline. One builds upon another. Just in this case for Mesh models.

There is a Mirror modifier that is self explanatory.

The Array modifier helps to create linear/rectangular and circular patterns.

The curve modifier allows you to deform a mesh along a curve.

I've labeled the ones I use most in he image below.

 

Screen Shot 2019-07-17 at 9.03.14 AM.pngScreen Shot 2019-07-17 at 9.03.14 AM.png

 

For this knurl I used 2 army modifiers (one in X and one in Y) and a Curve modifier.

 


EESignature

0 Likes
Message 13 of 18

MichaelT_123
Advisor
Advisor

Hi Mr JDFontento3,

 

Yes, it is possible... sort of. Theoretically, any well-behaving graphics engine should take on such challenges. However, the path for the required outcome might not be necessarily easy, and it will depend upon many imposed factors and exposed deficiencies.   I understand that for one reason or another you want to torture F360 by knurling it! As per my own experience, I assure you that F360 will not submit easily. This opinion is somewhat supported by Mr TippyLighting (who when has heard it has had prudently escaped underarms of Blender or Mr ATFrench who has faced the resistance bravely and made the first step with some efforts. |:-)

Some time ago I have answered the post which seems to resonate with your challenge and it might answer some of your questions.

As I understand you would like to create double sin() knurl around a cylindrical shape controlling its many parameters like its diameter, bumps heights, r&h sin() periods, etc. possibly them being functions of knurl position.

I have to admit it is F360_WishOfTheYear.

Could you please, look at the following?

 

KnurledCylinder J.pngKnurledCylinder J.pngKnurledCylinder_I.pngKnurledCylinder_I.png

Is it something similar you are looking for? If yes, can you challenge yourself  to describe the shape in the mathematical jargon?

f(x,y,z) =g(u,v,param1,....,paramN), D(u,v,param1,....,paramN)

(the parametric type function is the most appropriate method of the description for the occasion)

The precise and formal description of the manifold/surface function is the obligatory foundation for the following steps. You might ask yourself “Where can I find such a function?”

Well, the simple answer is in… funiverse which eclipses and controls universe you are the part of. So there is a chance that it could be hiding at the back of your head.

Whatever the result, and upon your willingness to share it, partake it in the challenge for next steps.

 

Addendums:

  KnurledCylinder_H.f3d 

  KnurledCylinder_H.png 

  Knurlers.mp4  

  Knurlets_arcd.mp4

(anaglyph red/cyan glasses required, best effect while watching natively outside a browser for example in MediaPlayer, VML or similar.)

 

Regards

MichaelT

 

 

 

 

 

 

MichaelT
Message 14 of 18

TrippyLighting
Consultant
Consultant

@MichaelT_123 Mightily impressive what you are able to achieve with the Fusion API (I assume) !


EESignature

0 Likes
Message 15 of 18

etfrench
Mentor
Mentor

Unfortunately, the included file doesn't contain any information on how to reproduce the effectSmiley Sad

ETFrench

EESignature

0 Likes
Message 16 of 18

MichaelT_123
Advisor
Advisor

Yes, Mr ETFrench,

 

... I know. The effect is created by a portion of the quite substantial chunk of code creating "I would call the extension of F360 functionality",  It is quite a few tens of thousands of code lines, a significant portion of it based ( as Mr TrippyLighting suspected) on F360 API but not only.

 

That's why in the first sentence of my previous post I used the term "...sort off"

 

With Regards

MichaelT

MichaelT
0 Likes
Message 17 of 18

TrippyLighting
Consultant
Consultant

@MichaelT_123 wrote:

 

 

... I know. The effect is created by a portion of the quite substantial chunk of code creating "I would call the extension of F360 functionality",  It is quite a few tens of thousands of code lines, a significant portion of it based ( as Mr TrippyLighting suspected) on F360 API but not only.

 


Hmmm ... I remember many of your posts. It seems like you have a goal with this beyond just the intellectual challenge. Would you care to elaborate ?

What API are you using C++ or Python ?

Are you using any commonly available libraries to help in the pursuit or are you writing everything from scratch ?

 

 


EESignature

0 Likes
Message 18 of 18

MichaelT_123
Advisor
Advisor

Hi Mr TrippyLighting,

 

C++ and Python. The code I referred to is my own but there are of course some commonly used libs. It is not possible to do the work today without them.

Can I elaborate,.. well,... have had started solving problems after problems and ... it has happened |:-).

As I have mentioned, graphics engines are similar and the geometry and topology science is the same in our corner of the universe. Nevertheless, in this context Fusion 360 API has created many challenges as it is a little bit outdated in the context of the current software and hardware implementations. It means there is a HUGE  area for the improvements (speed & functionality-wise).

 

With Regards

MichaelT 

MichaelT