Annoying snapping to geometry in sketches

[vikt.shapovalov]

This is the issue me and many of my colleagues have been annoyed for quite some time. Now it's time to shout it out loud.

Let's say, you have a design with some components and geometry already existing and you start a new sketch the way you have this geometry behind the sketch plane. You draw your lines and stuff and now it comes time for dimensions. And here comes the nightmare since the Dimension tool will try to snap to any geometry (even inactive) behind the sketch plane. And when I say ANY I mean it.

Me: I've activated this component as I only want to work with this one and I do not intend to use others in my sketch so I do not project their geometry.

Dimension tool: Let's create a dimension between this nice little circle and this random edge on an random inactive component 1 meter behind the sketch plane, that will be fun!

It's annoying beyond any expression, really! Just check the video.

Or another example, you project some geometry to your sketch plane because you want to use this particular geometry projection. But no, Fusion knows better, so if you reference your projections carelessly, it will select not your projection, but the original geometry or even worse some random edge which is behind your your sketch plane but on the same line of sight that your projection. Unlimited frustration - that's what happens next.

This should not be default behavior for sure. If this is a bug, please fix it. If this is a feature, please make it toggleable by some hotkey or checkbox. Do not make your users to be sappers looking for a spot to place their dimension without snapping to some random geometry.

[dieselguy65]

why not just untick the "snap to" box?

[HughesTooling]

Most advanced uses turn off all auto-projection. Think the default for new users for auto project geometry on active sketch plane is off now.

Mark

[davebYYPCU]

Currently you can’t Dimension 3d sketches, 

He who helps himself - can also use 

Lightbulbs, 

selection filters,

select through Off, 

A few preferences - auto project, 

selectable / unselectable.

for a a pleasant experience.

[vikt.shapovalov]

So, to all above.

It's not a 3D sketch.

All auto projections are off.

Disabling "Snap to" does not help.

Using selectable/unselectable is a workaround sometimes, but not a solution (maybe I need to use the geometry for projection?)

Hiding with lightbulbs is a workaround sometimes, but not a solution (maybe I need to see other geometry?)

And the selection filters might be helpful... If only the work for anything else than Selection tool, but they do not.

[TrippyLighting]

Have you tried to "isolate" that component ?

[vikt.shapovalov]

Of course. It doesn't interact with invisible geometry and componets hidden
by "Isolate" or just manually with light bulbs. However, it still tries to
"snap" with any other visible geometry in "isolated" component. All the
visibility and selectability tricks are just tricks, not solutions.
Imagine you have single component which has single body which is just a
brick. One the one side of the brick you have a lot of let's say blind
holes, on the other side you start new sketch the way your brick is behind
the sketch plane. Any tool you want to use like dimensionong or constrains
will try to snap or reference those holes or whatever geometry you have
behind the plane.
What will you do? Isolate? You have one component. Make the brick body
unselectable? You will not be able to project geometry you want to use, or
even reference the edges of the brick face you are sketching on. Hide the
body with the light bulb? You won't be able to see what you are doing and
how it looks like with your existing geometry. See what I mean?
And it could be solved with just one hotkey like Ctrl to turn on some "Stay
in sketch plane" mode.

[TrippyLighting]

If you feel so strongly about it then post it in the idea station. 

Not sure what else to tell you. If you can just not get over it then you'll need to simply use another CAD system.

[davebYYPCU]

Working in a cluttered environment has its pitfalls.

[TrippyLighting]

---

@davebYYPCU wrote:

Working in a cluttered environment has its pitfalls.

---

I would disagree with that statement because it can be interpreted to put blame on the user.

More complex designs are not necessarily cluttered, they are simply more crowded.

But as long as the Fusion 360 team aims their UI "improvements" at noobs, people that want to  create  more complexity will simply have to put up with a few annoyances!

[vikt.shapovalov]

"Simply use another CAD" - quite an unusual position for Autodesk Expert Elite, you know. I have experience with other CAD systems despite I'm not an engineer but physicist, as well as I have reasons and desire to use Fusion 360.

Before going to Idea Station I decided to post on forums - maybe me and my colleagues are just missing something obvious. Apparently, that's not the case.

Don't take me wrong, I love Fusion 360, it's wonderful, that's why I want to help it's improvement to the best of my possibilities.

Look at this.

Where exactly my environment is cluttered? I have one component visible and only one body, it just has complex geometry. Complex, not cluttered. I cannot use texture instead of this geometry, it's meant to be 3D printed. What should I do? Split this geometry from the initial body with Split body and hide it? That is not my design intent to have multiple bodies. Hide the whole body? C'mon, I'm going to modify it with my sketch, I have to see it! Make it unselectable? I'll have to switch it on/off each time I really want to reference or project it's geometry.

[davebYYPCU]

You have a sketch on the front face, you are presented with snappable geometry when you sweep the cursor, but what else are you intending to do in that sketch, no tool selection, no new articles, you highlighted one rear line, but....

I would have hidden the body.....

[MichaelT_123]

Hi Mr. Shapovalov,

Just try to zoom in and select your desired object (circle?).

I assure you that the result will appear before your eyes faster then by going through Idea Station option path.

С уважением

MichaelT

[vikt.shapovalov]

I intend to dimension this sketch, of course! What you see in the video is just oversimplified example. Let's say I have more objects than one circle. I want to be able to interact with the objects in my sketch without interference from some random geometry behind it's plane. This geometry is not selectable in sketch mode, but it becomes selectable when I use Dimension tool. I mean, what for? Sketch is a 2D object by default, why this 3D selectability through the sketch plane even exists by default in 2D mode? I mean, with Projection tool (where it would be reasonable to interact with 3D geometry) I'm not allowed to select trough the faces (obviously because it tries to select this face, but still). But with 2D Dimension tool it works. We do not have synchronous environment like in Solid Edge, where you can dimension 3D features directly (and even there they have F3 hotkey for Lock plane mode), why do we have this sick interaction?

Playing with zoom and carefully moving the pointer is what I use now, but again, it's a trick or workaround but not a solution.

Here is the real problem: let's say I have several edges created by several different features presented in my model. Those edges currently lay on the same plane and I create sketch on a plane perpendicular to this one. In the orthogonal projection of 2D sketch mode those edges just coincide. Then I intentionally project one of those edges to my sketch with Project tool, and then use Dimension tool to create dimension between my sketch line and this projection. Sometimes Fusion won't select the projection, but instead some edge that is behind this projection and even behind the originally projected edge. There is no way to notice it, really. This wrong new projection just goes on top of the old projected line and they coincide. So then when I change this wrongly projected edge my sketch changes unpredictably (for me). Zooming does not help, those edges will coincide at any zoom, this is how orthogonal projection works.

[g-andresen]

Hi,

@davebYYPCU  @TrippyLighting @HughesTooling 

I  agree with @vikt.shapovalov 

If I deactivate the auto project and the filter "through", but still can select points of a geometry in the background for dimensioning, then something goes wrong. I tried to illustrate the facts:

select through ?

You see that points can be accidentally selected even though they are not on the current drawing plane and then even a projection circle is created.

If "through" corresponds to its word meaning, the effect should not occur when this function is disabled.

günther

[davebYYPCU]

If things need fixing, fair enough,

but for me - I have a different workflow and do not have these troubles. Why?

Edit sketch - collect projected articles, and

then hide everything else -  only ever one lightbulb turned on, sooo simple. 

[HughesTooling]

Yes I have to agree as well. I'd forgotten dimension works differently and I don't think it should. If I disable Auto Project edges on reference then they shouldn't be projected no matter what tool I'm using. Don't work with many components visible so don't really notice but I have brought it up before.

Mark

[g-andresen]

Hi,

What am I trying to say?
If I remove the ignition key from the car, I expect the engine to stop, right?

günther

[Anonymous]

What do you think of Artizono? You're very professional at this.

[TrippyLighting]

@vikt.shapovalov 

You've explained the problem well enough and I agree, it would indeed be nice to turn this behavior off.

I simply don't see this coming as a feature anytime soon, however.

If you watch the "what's new" videos that are released with the regular updates of Fusion 360 you might remember that recently they implemented a feature that allows you to break the links of several linked components at the same time. The request for that feature in the idea station is from August 2015! You might recognize the author 😉

As such if this inhibits you from completing your work, then you'll either have to be really patient, or use another tool. I see no conflict here when suggestion other tools. A CAD software is a tool.

I use many tools to complete my work. If Fusion 360 isn't  working I use my ZW3D license. If T-Splines are too clumsy to model I use Blender. When Eagle does not have the feature I need then I use Circuit Maker or start investigating alternatives.