a few observations on "Derive"

[maker9876]

Not quite an "idea" so posting it here. - If you want to delete a component derived into another file you have to break the link, which means if any other components were inserted in the same derive operation they will be lost too. This implies it may be better to derive each component with a separate derive operation; - performing repeated derive operations into another file is quite hard work because: a) the settings such as "add to existing file" are not remembered by the popup so you must repeatedly make the same choices; b) the file path last used is not remembered by the popup so you must repeatedly navigate to find it; - If a component was created in file A, LINKED into file B and derived from file B into file C..... if the component is modified in A it will not show up as having changed in C until file B has been updated. One day this might cause problems! - if a single component in the aforementioned file A is modified and then synchronised with file B then ALL of the components derived into file C may show up as requiring synchronisation, even if they have not themselves changed; Just offering feedback. Basically Derive is GREAT!! 😉

[maker9876]

Ah... and when you update components derived into a file then all the construction elements (eg planes) become visible all over again (after you had already turned off their visibility once before - when designs are linked you get the same thing on first insertion but you can turn off visibility and it remains off despite further updates).

[TrippyLighting]

Why are you using "derive" and not "insert" ?

[maker9876]

In this case (sorry the formatting of first post seems to have been lost and what was a list has become a single paragraph) for CAM related reasons.

Have an assembly which contains various pieces that need to be cut from 13mm phenolic resin board on a router. So create a new file, create a component in it to represent the stock material and make it opaque. Derive into that file each of the components that will need to be cut out and place them within the stock using "planar" joints. Add within certain of the components a sketch with a few modifications that will help selecting the toolpaths. Then slide the components around into an arrangement that looks like it will use material most efficienty, capture position and then head to the Manufacture module to setup the CAM.

If tried to do the above using "Insert" would have to insert the entire assembly multiple times, each time turning off the visibility of all of the components except one, in order to position each component independently on the stock. Have done this before for a couple of components but it's basically not doable for a greater number than that.

[HughesTooling]

A few more notes. 

If a component is hidden when derived into another file it will change to viable (Just the component), but the body will be hidden. If the component is a subassembly all bodies in the subassembly will be hidden and a real pain to go through expanding all body folders within the subassembly to make the bodies visible!

I usually derive components into a design as the first features in the timeline and I've found updates are faster if you roll the timeline back to the last derive feature before updating. If the timeline maker's at the end of the timeline it seems to do a compute all and take a lot longer to update.

And yes the construction geometry being turned on is another irritating feature.

@jeff_strater  Any comments on any of the points in this thread?

Mark

[jeff_strater]

since you tagged, me, I can give a few opinions, but I've sent this off to the UX and PM of this area for more accurate opinions...

I agree that you should be able to Remove any component or body which has been Derived in.  That is different than deleting it.  Though, (and, to be honest, I have not used Derive all that much), can't you just edit the Derive and de-select that component that you don't want?

The A->B->C chain out-of-dateness problem is just not implemented yet.  If you remember, not that long ago, this was true for XRef (Insert), and we implemented "deep update" to fix it.  Deep update is just not there for Derive yet.  It'll come.

I agree on the visibility weirdness.  Those sound like bugs to me, and are worth fixing.

[tyler_henderson]

Regarding deleting a component after Derive, I would suggest the same thing as Jeff.  Why not edit the Derive  (right-click on the Derive feature), then remove that component from the list of derived objects?

If that doesn't fulfill your need, let us know.  We might not full y understand you need.

There are some bugs related to visibility that we are fixing.  I will see if the Component visibility issue is being worked on, if not, I'll get a defect logged.

As a side note, we're also working on letting you change the names of derived objects in the browser of the Target, and names will stick even if the Derive is updated.

Thanks for the feedback.

[HughesTooling]

Thanks for the tip about editing a derive feature, didn't know you could do that. For me more useful for adding components though.

Thanks Mark

[maker9876]

Missed the TIMELINE:right-click-EDIT-derive-selection feature too.

Nice!