Allow Dimension Input Box to Act as a Calculator

[mcnurlin]

When entering an equation that involves only numbers Fusion 360 should return a result in the dimension box. Currently the equation remains in the dimension box.

Often times when I'm working I know I want to adjust a value by a certain amount. It's quicker to type +1 in if I'm adding a n inch to something rather retyping in a new value. I also thinks it helps to prevent transposition type mistakes when changing values.

The other thing is that when you return to a design after a long absence or if you work on somebody elses design that has entered values as equations there can be a great deal of confusion about what's going on.

If the equation has another dimension or parameter in it then it should remain an equation because then the design intent has created a dependancy to another value.

[HughesTooling]

I think it's too useful the way it works now. May be you should ask for a calculator button that opens a calculator of perhaps a Calculate function. So you'd type Calculate(2+2) and after click OK on a dialog only 4 is save as the parameter.

Mark

[david.fergenson]

In addition, it would be nice if you could include dimensions or measurements of other objects by reference so that the resulting size would be recomputed (spreadsheet style) when a change was made elsewhere in the design.

[laughingcreek]

I agree with @HughesTooling, it's very useful the way it is now.  I would hate to see it change.  Maybe both could be achieved by using an = when want to keep the formula, and not using it when we just want to calculate?  or vise versa.

@david.fergenson, could expound on your idea?  I think you mean by selecting them in the design, instead of having go find their reference IDs and type them in?  That would be useful.  You should submit a separate idea for that, I would vote for it. 

[david.fergenson]

Thanks, @laughingcreek. I still think that my idea is fundamentally an aspect of @HughesTooling's.

This idea is that if, for example, you wanted to set a diameter of one sketch object to be 1.1 times the diameter of an existing sketch object, you would enter that as "=2*diameter(<ObjectName>).

Similar to when performing a similar calculation on a spreadsheet, you could browse over to the object and click on it once you had begun a parenthesis.

A dynamic constraint could be generated from the formula.

It is already possible to set a diameter, graphically, to be a fixed amount larger or smaller than another diameter. This idea integrates that existing functionality with @HughesTooling's concept of dynamic computations of values and parameters.

By the way, @HughesTooling, the reason that I voted for your idea was that one of our subcontractors, on his first day, was so sure that your feature already existed that he tried repeatedly to get it to work before calling me over to his workstation to ask what he was doing wrong. So it's safe to that people would use it.

[luke.wilson59]

I love this Idea! I've been wanting a feature like this for a while now. I've been wanting to use Phi [ Φ ] for the Golden ratio and this would be so helpful in doing this, simplifying the process a great deal. I really hope Autodesk add this feature soon!

In addition to this suggestion and those put forward in the comments prior to mine, I think it would also be useful to be able to designate a pronumeral (e.g. 'x' like in algebra,) to a line, face or point etc. and be able to use that instead of having to type that object's full name every time as suggested by david.fergenson. This would also help eliminate some troubles that would result if its name were later changed or combined/joined with another object. For example, if a line had the length of 5 units and was denoted as 'x', a new line drawn could be dimensioned as 'xΦ' meaning the length of 'x' multiplied by Φ [1.618...] which would be equivalent to typing "5*1.618" ≈8.09

I'll have a think, I'm really eager to for an update with this. If I later think of anything else to add I'll come back and do so.

I can't wait! Great Idea!

🙂

[HughesTooling]

@luke.wilson59 you do know you can make a User Parameter Phi and set it to 1.618, you can even enter ((1+sprt(5)/2) and use it in a dimension.

[HughesTooling]

@david.fergenson Do you know about the parameter dialog and how to use it. If you dimension a circle the dimension is give a parameter, if you hover the mouse over a dimension you'll see something d1:5mm. The d1 is the parameter automatically assigned the dimension, you can edit and change the name in the parameter dialog. So if you want a circle twice the size of the first you'd enter d1*2. Parameters are assigned to pretty much every feature you create.

Mark

[HughesTooling]

Thinking about this a bit more perhaps the best compromise would be an option in Preferences. Although using an equal sign sounds good it would need to work with old designs, I wouldn't want all my old designs with equations converted to values. So perhaps adding an equal sign while entering an equation should just calculate the value so old designs would be unaffected.

Mark

[mcnurlin]

An equation in a dimension input box with a variable should remain an equation. After all the correct result can not be determined without the equation. 

An equation that is just a bunch of numbers should solve to the result and display the result going forward. 

For instance If I were modeling a slot for a keyway in a bore I might want an equation for the height like "bore_od + .250". In this case because a dependency has been created the equation must remain.

In another situation I may get an request like "We need to open this hole by .020 to allow for powdercoat." In this case it's very convenient to click on the dimension and append the value with +.020. There is no added value in seeing 1.00+.020 in the dimension box the next time somebody needs to deal with the part so it should solve and display 1.020 going forward.

I'll create a little video this week showing Fusion 360 vs. Solidworks this week if you think more clarity is needed.

[HughesTooling]

I know what you want and you say having 1.0 +0.020 has no value, but for me it reminds me I made it over size for a reason so I don't want any of my equations converted to a value. Like I said maybe add it to preferences so you can choose but I would not want it changed from the way it works now.

Mark

[mcnurlin]

That's great when you have one person working on one design. How is somebody that inherits the design going to interpret an equation with no variable and without comments. It doesn't have enough detail to communicate value. The reason for the change should be detailed in the accompanying  change order.

We are probably looking at this from much different perspectives. I'm looking at what it would take to use Fusion 360 in multi seat environment that needs to do both new designs and sustaining engineering. It sounds like you are in a smaller operation where you primarily deal with your own files and if someone else does need to deal with your files you are readily available to clarify any issues. I can not see promoting the retention of equations in dimension boxes without comments doing anything more than causing confusion to a sustaining engineer that needs to make updates in the future. 

Design practices that I've always promoted is the design should be modeled with real world intent and be behave in a predictable way for future engineers that need to deal with the design. For instance if a dimension is used in an equation the dimension name should be changed to something descriptive like "length", "width" or "OD" rather leave the default "d1" or whatever was originally assigned by the program.

I understand that Fusion 360 is not a me too product and it's trying to forge its own path. But at the same time it's going to attract some users that have experience in other programs. I was surprised more than anything to see my equation remain when I've not seen that occur on any other 3d CAD program I've used. I see it as a quick easy tool to allow the computer do a little work for me. I don't need to reach for a calculator and risk making a transposition errors typing into a calculator and back into Fusion 360.

[david.fergenson]

Thank you, @HughesTooling. I did not know about that feature because I typically design with the timeline turned off--above a certain level of complexity, it seemed to make my application unstable. It seems that the timeline feature is required for the parameters dialog box to be accessible.

Because that already solves my problem, I withdraw my suggestion.

[kb9ydn]

I'm with the OP.  Entries in a dimension box should be automatically evaluated unless they are explicitly marked as equations, like with an "=" sign.  And I would say that even variables should be evaluated unless preceded by "=".  It is entirely plausible that you might want to set a dimension to the same value as another dimension or variable without actually linking the two parametrically (which is what "=" would do).

As for storing meta information about dimensions and variables, that should be done elsewhere, like on a manufacturing drawing or in a change request, or ideally in the model itself somehow.  This is another area that Fusion could be better at.

C|

[HughesTooling]

Like I said, make it a Preference then you can choose how you want it. As for adding "=", what about all the old designs would all of those need editing to stop them from converting all equations to values?

[kb9ydn]

@HughesTooling

It's a good question about what to do with old designs, and it's not limited to this particular functionality either.  This is one of those problems that Autodesk gets themselves into by implementing features that aren't completely thought through, and then taking forever to "fix" them.  In the mean time people get used to the "bad" behavior and then when it comes time to make improvements it's that much more painful.

A user preference probably would be the easiest way to deal with it.  I can think of other ways but they aren't really easy.

C|

[yanouk73]

hi,

yes, a calculator available in the field and it should keep the formula available for later modifications.

Yan

[colin.smith]

The UI team will review this idea. 

[JamieGilchrist]

We'll look at this a bit more.  Today you can do this through the Parameters dialog, however when investigating a model, especially someone else's work, it can be clumsy.  We think we can use the tool tip system to help you clearly understand the value of a formula or given parameter while in the context of the thing that parameter or formula is applied to.

[Peteous]

This is critical to me and my company's workflow, and I can't believe it is not yet a Fusion360 feature. 

[Scoox]

There are times when I prefer the expression to remain. For example, if I'm drawing a circle that needs to clear an M3 bolt thread, then to my mind 3 + 0.2 is more insightful than 3.2. It acts as a reminder of what the numbers represent. But there may be times when computing the resulting value could be handy, too. The point is, in any given project, there is room for both implementations so, rather than choose one or the other, I propose the following ideas which make it possible for both implementations to coexist, without any extra settings needed in the Preferences window:

Idea 1: Add a small "Compute value" button to the dimension input box to perform the following actions, in the listed order, all with a single click:

• Compute the numerical value
• Destructively replace the formula with the numerical value
• Commit and close dimension input box (optionally)

The other thing that would be hugely useful is to add Cancel and OK buttons to the dimension input box, especially the OK button since the Enter key on normal keyboards is on the right (intended for the right hand) but the right hand is already busy operating the mouse, which results in constant hand movement.

The solution might look like this, see the small "=" button to the right, indicating "compute":

Note: The above input box look and feel is taken from this feature request is from another mock-up I did for a different suggestion, here.

Idea 2: Alternatively, a simpler---albeit admittedly less direct---implementation would be to include the computed numerical result at the top of the value drop-down, thus:

Both of these solutions would also apply to expressions containing variables, thereby enabling users to transform any expression into a literal constant value.

So there you have it. If some users prefer the value to be destructively computed every time by default, then IMHO the choice of default behaviour should be user-selectable.

Cheers!