[CLOSED] Inspection and Metrology Needs

[Philip_Hewitt]

Today Fusion 360 provides probing and measurement capability for milling machines-  with a spindle-mounted probe you can integrate part-setting and verification operations into your manufacturing process. 

We are considering how to extend this capability. What would you like to see?

How do you ensure accuracy? Do you inspect with a probe or a dedicated measuring device? How do you record the results and what do you do with them afterwards?

Please fill out this short survey- it should take less than 3 minutes- to help us understand your measurement equipment and needs. If you'd like to talk to us and provide feedback directly, please include your email address on the last question of this survey. Thank you!

https://forms.office.com/Pages/ResponsePage.aspx?id=nve_Z5F_M0So5cklLS3cHSQ_iwacbjtMv2c8w2t01eFUMVJL...

[26-Taylor]

Pretty excited to see the "Manual Inspection" preview feature. I'm guessing this feature is what you were eluding to here:

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Do you inspect with a probe or a dedicated measuring device? How do you record the results and what do you do with them afterwards?

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 @Philip_Hewitt , can you point me in the direction of a feedback thread where users can give some feedback (have a short list going already) as we play with this feature? If there isn't one, can we get one started?

Thanks!

[Philip_Hewitt]

Thank you @26-Taylor.  I hope you like it.

Indeed I can!  Please see https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/fusion-360-manufacture/create-inspection-routines-with-calipers-heigh...

Thanks very much for following up!

[Mattxer]

I'm also happy to see the manual inspection workflow. I would like to see this exposed to the API though so that i could integrate my Digital Height gauge and micrometer to record results quickly. I built software that pulls data from my devices and would like to take the manual inspections stuff, display it on screen to guide what to measure on a part.

[Philip_Hewitt]

Hi @Mattxer, thanks for replying!

I had a quick look at your websites- you're obviously pretty skilled and enthusiastic.

As you've found out, manual isn't currently supported by API, although it is something we have talked about.  Thank you for confirming your interest- this does help us to prioritize.

I would be really interested to know more about the software you've built, and the measuring instruments you have.  I'm just guessing at this point considering your varied interests....  Please tell me more if you're happy to talk about it here, or we could have a discussion offline.  Either way I'd like to get a better understanding of what you're doing and how it interacts with Fusion.

Thank you very much for contributing!

[Mattxer]

Thanks @Philip_Hewitt,

My website is still in the works haha. The home page has some videos of autonomous robots I've programmed.

As for measuring equipment at my fathers shop we mainly use a Sylac/Fowler Hi-Cal height gauge for most of our off machine inspection. That has an API for interfacing with which allows me to set presets, get measurements, change modes and units, and even move the probe up and down. I've been pushing for us to get more into modern tech. I haven't done much with the fusion API but if the inspection stuff gets worked in it would be interesting to give it a go. I know I could just pass the measurement result and auto type it in, but i'm thinking of a more streamlined process. It's a work in progress but i'm using a raspberry pi and touchscreen as an interface for the height gauge. 

[rui_rita]

Hi @Philip_Hewitt ,

Can you tell me if the OMV Mapping error, is something that we will find any time soon in Fusion 360?

most of the CNC machines are equiped with  2D probes, like OMP40, and the accurracy in 3D Models isn't the best as you know, something that we can correct in PowerINSPEC, that have that feature. 

[Philip_Hewitt]

Hi @rui_rita

Hello!  Thank you very much for the feedback.  We already know each other and we both have experience with this topic, but I'm going to add an explanation in case other people are interested.

There are several probe manufacturers and each has its own range of products, but it's typical that some are focused on measuring 'Prismatic Parts' with mainly 2d geometry, and other are focused on measuring 'Complex 3d Parts' with curved surfaces.

In Fusion 360 terms

• 'Prismatic Parts' contain features you would measure with 'Probe Geometry' and do part setting with 'Probe WCS'
• 'Complex 3d Parts' have curved and sweeping surface you would measure with 'Inspect Surface' and would require 'Part Alignment' for part setting.

Renishaw explains this nicely on their website at https://www.renishaw.com/en/inspection-probe-technology--32933.

In Renishaw terms

• 'Kinematic resistive probes' are suitable for prismatic parts.
• 'Strain Gauge probes' give higher accuracy for complex 3d parts and are often preferred or necessary.

Also on the Renishaw website this case study https://www.renishaw.com/en/strain-gauge-machine-tool-probe-is-right-for-5-axis-aerospace-parts--145... explains some of these issues in more detail.

Strain gauge probes generally give higher accuracy when measuring complex 3d surfaces in 'Inspect Surface' operations- but they are more expensive.

If a machine tool is already fitted with a probe, but you didn't specify that you needed to measure complex 3d surfaces, then it's probably a lower accuracy model more suited to measuring prismatic parts. It will also be able to measure complex 3d surfaces, but the accuracy will be measurably worse.

For improved accuracy the simplest solution is to upgrade the probe to a more accurate model.

It is also possible to compensate for the inherently lower accuracy of a kinematic probe.  Although they are less accurate, they are very repeatable, so once you have measured the 3d measuring performance you can compensate for most of the inaccuracy This will not be as accurate as a specially designed strain gauge probe, but if the error compensation method is sophisticated the accuracy can come close and will be sufficient for many applications.

We developed a 3d calibration and error compensation method for PowerInspect OMV / Ultimate (now Fusion 360 with PowerInspect) to improve the 3d performance of strain gauge probes.

If you've read this far, I will finally try to answer the question!

We have thought about developing a PowerInspect-style 3d calibration and error compensation method for Fusion 360 but so far we have not prioritized it or made firm plans. Apart from the work for us to develop the functionality, the end user would need to do extra work to calibrate and compensate to improve the probe accuracy.

3d probe calibration and error compensation is not a quick or simple task- and apart from Autodesk employees, you are the first person to ask for this feature or comment on probe accuracy for probing complex 3d parts.  That's why it has not been a priority so far.  

This how we get feedback though, so this is the first stage in the process of increasing the priority.

I will be interested to see if anyone else comments on this now it has been discussed!

[VitorMartinsAugusto]

Hello Phil,

At Norcam we had so far little success with OMV due to already known issues:

1. Incompatible machine controllers
2. High cost (PI Ultimate + custom posts)
3. Inaccurate probes (as described in your last reply)

Nowadays, with Fusion360, point 2 is sorted out and point 3 could be sorted out with calibration & error mapping, as requested by Rui.

This definitely is interesting for us, as it would broaden the universe of suitable prospects and, very important, the task of doing the claibration & error mapping is a value-added service where we could provide a service and make some profit ( I don't need to expand on the current situation of service-based software suppliers in the Autodesk world, as opposed to "box-shifters").

Regards,

Vitor