[CLOSED] Call for Preview Feedback: Arrange Feature

[javiar]

Hi all,

I'm excited to introduce our brand-new "Arrange" feature which is now available as a Public Preview in the August update. To try this, go to Preferences > Preview Features and enable "Arrange Feature" and "Manufacturing Working Model"

Arrange feature enables efficient object arrangement within a specified rectangular or non-rectangular bounding area. You can specify the arrangement boundary by either selecting a sketch or choosing a plane along with desired Length and Width dimensions.

While it automatically determines the orientation of selected objects based on largest area planar face, you can flip the objects or select an alternate planar face interactively. Similarly, you can also create the arrangement above or below the chosen planar boundary.

Arrange is a history-capture feature that is recorded on the timeline and supports associative updates with any design changes. As the history marker is moved backwards or forwards, the changes replay in sequence. Moreover, as the boundary area is adjusted, arrangement results update in real time.

Once you are satisfied with the arranged results, you can return to Manufacture workspace to create Setups, Operations, and NC programs for your arranged layouts to drive your CNC equipment.

For more details on Arrange feature, see Help Documentation.

I am sure you will find other creative ways to leverage the power of Arrange in your daily workflows. We would love to hear how Arrange is helping you with your workflows. We're equally interested in any constructive feedback or suggestions. Please share your comments and ideas below.

Looking forward to hear your feedback on this Preview functionality.

Regards,

Ravi J

[quadro69]

Hello,

This is has been a feature I have been wanting for a long time.

Is performance is great and the real-time adjustments is even better.

Here is a list of features I would like to see added.

• The ability to add unfolded sheet metal parts, it should automatically unfold them.
• Control the rotation of parts for "Grain Direction"
• Change the number of items, instead of copy/paste
• When I plasma cut I like to cut the inside holes of each part then the outside, I don't want to make a tool path for the inside and another for the outside for each item.
•  The datum point should be the start of where the items are populated.
• Report of the area to be used and time to cut for quoting/charging customers.
• Easier to find- it wasn't very intuitive, it took a bit to work out how to access it.

It is definitely a step in the right direction.

[Anonymous]

As a woodworker this is a Great feature 

• Grain direction definitely needs to be a factor 
• When manually rearranging parts on a sheet it would be useful if the spacing parameters could be maintained

• Issue - When rearranging the components on a sketch some components where/or ended up on a lower plane  - could just me, as new to fusion 360 but would expect this context to understand that I'm trying to rearrange the parts on a sheet. 
• Question - will it be able to arrange parts on to multiple sheets of stock?  

expect I'll need to use multiple Models one for each thickness of sheet material and one for solid timber parts.

A general issue I've found with 3d software is that in relation to wood, dimensions of length, width etc relate to the component which is expected, but the software has no way to relate that to the stock dimensions - not explain that well but it relates to cut lists and linking all components to a particular stock source - say 2x4 solid wood length. There are workarounds using descriptions etc but that doesn't help the program automatically relate the components to stock material. Is this a aspect/concept that you could introduce? 

Thanks, looking forward to final release. 

[javiar]

Hi Anthony,

Thanks for the feedback and suggestions. Glad you like the new Arrange feature. Please see comments below:

1. Sheet metal flat patterns can not be arranged easily at this time. We will be improving this in a future release so that you can arrange them just as easily as non-sheet metal components. There are a few different workarounds available today:
   1. Create a new document and insert derive flat patterns of components you would like to arrange. (FYI - This has some shape overlap issues which are getting resolved in next update.)
   2. Activate flat pattern, RMB “Save Copy As” to save as a new component and then use this in a new document.
   3. Export DXF of the flat pattern and import it as a sketch into a separate component
2. Arrange does not support grain alignment or rotation control. It allows objects to rotate full 360 degrees with 90 degree increments. Once Arranged, you can use the Move/Copy command to rotate the parts to desired orientation. Arrange is a simplified version of the Advanced Nesting functionality which is currently in development. Advanced Nesting will provide the additional control you are looking, and much more.
   
3. Part quantity multiplier is definitely a productivity booster. It will available with the Nesting functionality. As a workaround, you can also use the Pattern command to avoid having to copy/paste individual components. It will create appropriate copies in the browser which you can then use to create the Arrange feature.
4. For plasma cutting, you can create a 2D profile operation from the Manufacture workspace (Fabrication tab) which automatically cuts internals first before cutting outside profile. Please let me know if I misunderstood your question.
5. Datum for reference - Yes, we realize that for Arrange created using Plane selection, there is no indication for start position (and Length x Width dimensions) directly in canvas. 'Dimension overlay on Arrange results in canvas' has been added to the list of Enhancement requests. This is not an issue for Arrange by Sketch since it already has the sketch boundary for reference.
6. Nest Reports will be available for the Advanced Nesting functionality. It will include information such as material efficiency, cost, parts nested (including 2D part image), picture of nest results, material, stock size, number of sheets created, etc. These reports will also be customizable so that users can adjust the reporting template to their needs.
7. Easy to find - We will look at ways to improve discoverability. Do you have any suggestions for this that you would like me to share with our UX team?

Thanks for taking the time to provide detailed feedback.

Regards,

Ravi J

[javiar]

Hi Adrian,

Thanks for trying out Arrange feature and for providing input:

1. As I mentioned above, Arrange does not support grain alignment or orientation control. This control will definitely be available in advanced Nesting functionality which is still in development. However, you can absolutely move and rotate parts using the Move/Copy command.
2. This is a great suggestion and one that we have already considered. Such a "bump" feature during move/rotate on Arranged objects can be very powerful to avoid manual checks with measure command. I have added it to the list of Enhancement requests.
3. Issue with Rearranging parts - What's happening here is that when you click an already arranged object to drag it, its still free to move. In order to lock it to plane, you can create a Planar Joint. Received a similar request from another user to consider creating a planar joint automatically when Arrange results get saved. I will review this with the development team. Great suggestion.
4. Arrange does not support multi-sheet nesting. It allows a single boundary selection for each feature. If you would like to Arrange parts on multiple sheets, you can achieve this by breaking up the object selection over multiple Arrange features. For example if you have a model with 20 objects that you know will fit on two sheets, you can create one Arrange feature with 10 objects (it relies on you to make the call as to which 10 are selected) on first sheet boundary and another Arrange feature with remaining 10 on the second sheet boundary. What it will not do is optimize for material efficiency across the 2 sheets since the sample size (objects selected) is determined by user.
   
   Advanced Nesting will support multi-sheet automatic nesting while also optimizing for cost - As you are aware, sheets come in different sizes and price tags and for that reason the highest material efficiency alone may not always be the most cost-effective result.
   

Hope this is helpful. Thanks again for the feedback.

Regards,

Ravi J

[quadro69]

To be honest, I haven't used it much. The workflow should be for any
operation - edit the manufacturing model, edit setup suitable stock and
datum points, create toolpaths, quote or invoice customer, create setup
sheet, post process. Making any modifications to the model affects
everything downstream, therefore, it should be in next to the setup
command in the toolbar.
[image: Annotation 2020-08-07 071026.png]

[ACMEracer]

Not completely nesting but when I create a working model from a design that uses a picture canvas the canvas is stuck on with no apparent way to turn it off.  This makes it very hard to work with nesting.

[Anonymous]

It's hard to show/hide models or switch between manufacturing models and non-manufacturing models.

After editing the manufacturing model to create a new arrange, the canvas became completely blank...All models disappear from canvas

[MattWynn]

@ACMEracer we have seen the canvas show in working model before.  Last I checked it was showing a rectangle outline where the canvas would be. Are you seeing the entire opaque image of the canvas (which is rather troublesome) or just the rectangle?

[ACMEracer]

Yes, I'm seeing the entire opaque canvas.  The model is turned off so only the working model is displayed.

[riei]

Hi Ravi,

this simple Arrange Feature is really nice and would saves a bit time and would create a better structured file for me. Actually I'm using a copied components-group within the design panel and rearranging by hand. 
But I can't export the flattened manufacturing model in a simple way as a drawing. In my actual version 2.0.8749 I only find an option for creating a drawing in the context menu when editing the manufacturing model and doing a right-click on it in the browser. But when clicking on that >Create Drawing< I'm just be able to choose the design model an not the manufacturing model.

Hopefully this will be implemented soon and maybe there will be an option for exporting after arranging in the toolbar?

Best Rico

[springai]

@Anonymous 

Cloud you please check if you could get the models back on Canvas if clicking the Fit command on bottom toolbar, or clicking the Home button of View Cube on top right corner.

Thanks,

-Spring

[Anonymous]

@springai 

When I click on Fit or Home, I still have the same problem. 

Here's a screencast to show you the issue.

Thanks,

-Skiold

[springai]

@Anonymous  

I saw your screencast that nothing to be displayed in the graphics window of the Manufacture Workspace. It seems that you can see the models in graphics window before you entering into Edit Manufacturing Model mode, but the models were gone after you finished Arrange and clicked on the Finish Edit button, right? 

I cannot reproduce this issue with my test data. Would you mind sharing me your sample file? 

Thanks,

-Spring

[springai]

@Anonymous 

Hi Skiold,

I noticed that the eye icon of the Manufacturing Models node is disabled from your screencast, which means you have hidden the Working Models, that is why nothing to be shown in the graphics window. Could you please click on the eye icon to show the Working Models? This should show the models back. Let me know if it is not the case.

Thanks,

-Spring

[David-Truyens]

@Anonymous, I had the same issue, but I didn't realize that I need to activate the "Manufacturing Model" preview.

There's a great movie by Portland CNC. This is the first time I had to watch a movie to get something running in Fusion, so I guess one of the comments above about not being easy to use is valid, although I fully understand the reasoning now. But if you make the command easier to find and then pop up a box with "no valid manufacturing model, click here to get started.." would be nice.

I hope the real nesting tool will use the same tech and not the old TruNest (way too slow and clumsy), this one looks a lot better!!

Last question, is there an API for the arrange tool? It's fairly easy to create a selection based on the smallest dimension of a bounding box so I could select plates of the same thickness. I think API's are crucial for nesting/arrange to become really useful as different manufacturing technologies needs different outputs from Fusion (I was blown away how some companies just use a dxf to program their machines in a blink of an eye 😉 ).

Regards,

David

[David-Truyens]

Another suggestion, 

The Manufacturing Model should have a filter on plate thickness. I help out a lot in woodworking. We have parametric models of a lot of different cabinets, including the PVC band on the side. Those are glued on once the plates come from the router, so no need to nest them and thus include them in the manufacturing model. Right now we use the Inventor Nesting to run production, so I export the Fusion model to inventor and then wrote a routine to delete all those pvc bands before going to nesting, reducing the nesting import a lot (another thing where I don't like the performance of the TruNest technology). 

So is there an API example for the Manufacturing Model?

Regards,

David

[MJHyne]

I'm with you on this.

Had a niggle or two with the tool, but the output is almost perfect for what I wanted; the ability to export a Flat Arrangement of all parts for export to 2D DWG/DXF or to the Drawing Space.

However, I cannot figure out how to get my Arrangement to either of these options easily. Export either crashes (that's a new one on me) or outputs the primary model (so not flattened).

The best I've managed so far is to Edit the Manufacturing Model then export as a 3D Model of various type, this then gives me the flattened model which I can then do as I will, but I've broken the associativity etc.

Its a brilliant tool, I'm very grateful for it, & were our company ready to use Fusion for CNC Programming (I'm pushing our CNC team, but they're busy!), we'd be there, but the ability to use the Arrangement for a Drawing View would be absolutely perfect.

[javiar]

@MJHyne,

Thanks for reaching out. I am glad you find the Arrange tool valuable for your workflows.

There are a few other ways to export/output dxf for the arranged results today:

1. While in the Edit Manufacturing Model environment, project the boundaries of arranged objects onto a sketch and then export the sketch as a dxf
2. Create a setup and toolpath operation for the arranged objects. Please make sure the sideways compensation is set to "Center" (for 2D Profile) or "Off" (for 2D Contour). Then you can PostProcess the toolpath by selecting one of the available DXF posts from the fusion post library. In the post dialog, you can set 'onlyCutting' = "YES" to get rid of the linking motion. And you can set 'includeDrill' = "NO" to avoid points.
   To download and install the dxf post on your computer, please visit - "https://cam.autodesk.com/hsmposts?"

Hope this helps. While these are sufficient workarounds for now, we will consider further enhancing the export capabilities in the future. Will be sure to reach out to you for ideas/input when we revisit this topic.

Regards,

Ravi J

[MJHyne]

Thanks Javiar, I'll give that a look. I did think of using a sketch, but Manufacturing isn't a Workspace with which I am overly familiar & I couldn't find the option to create a sketch within that environment. However, I am well known for being useless at finding things, I'll take another look!

If there were a function to essentially "create a Drawing View" from an Arrangement though... that would be brilliant as I do like to give our guys as comprehensive a set of supporting drawings & work instructions as possible!