Lathe Tool Creation Trailing Angle Issue

[eellsd]

Hey All,

First time posting here, so forgive me if this isn't the correct place to post this issue.

When setting up a custom insert holder in the tool manager, negative trailing angle values are displayed correctly in the preview window (see picture 1) but then when saved it shows up as a positive value (see picture 2).

Thanks for the help,

                   Derek

Picture 1Picture 2

[eellsd]

Still having this issue. Anyone have any suggestions?

[Matthew-R]

@eellsd

Thanks for reaching out on the forum. My apologies that this parameter in your custom lathe tool isn't being maintained. I've tested this on my end and am experiencing the same issue. Also, I find it odd that after the -10 previews and then is shown as +10, it also resets to 0 if you go back in and edit the tool and holder again. This behavior being the case, I've submitted this issue to the development team for them to further investigate the issue. That case number for your reference is CAM-10407. I'll update you as I receive information from them as they look into things.

Is this affecting anything in the code when you post an operation? I would not suspect this to be the case, but please let me know if there are any other issues that you're seeing.

Thanks again!

Matt Reineck

Technical Support Specialist, CAM

[Anonymous]

Yes, this will effect operation because the toolholder is checked and will show a crash if it hits.  But more than that, it will keep the tool path from being calculated if it would get in the way.  The custom tool holder feature does not work at all.  Or if it does it is for some scenario that I have not tried and I have tried hundreds just looking for ways to solve my problems.  There are several issues surrounding the tool holders including the one I posted about today where orientation in the turret can not be other than zero.  Also, there is no way to make or use tool holders that would hold any micro 100 size boring bars.

My recommendation is that the developers add a generic ghost insert tool holder that would not be checked in tool path calculations.  Otherwise they will forever be chasing the dream of accounting for every holder size and shape out there.  This is  not achievable.  This ghost holder would allow you to hold any insert at any angle.  I know they think that checking the holder is the noble thing to do but what this is really doing is stopping us from using this CAM.  I myself only use Fusion 360 CAM for lathe because I have Hypermill in Inventor for the Mill.  I have been using it for going on 17 years.  It checks tool holders too but you can turn that off when you need to or when it is not needed.

Cheers

[Matthew-R]

@Anonymous

Thanks for your input. If you select no holder in the tool library, a holder will not be accounted for. This may accomplish the same thing for you as your ghost holder idea.

Your suggestions are always welcome and you can feel free to bring any ideas to the development team by posting to the HSM Idea Station or the Fusion 360 Idea Station. We're always open to user suggestions and it's what really drives the development of our tools. We're constantly working on things and look forward to your input. 

Matt Reineck

Technical Support Specialist, CAM

[Anonymous]

Matthew,

Thanks for replying so fast.  I want to work through this with you to show you what I am experiencing.  Take a very close look at the pic you posted and you will see that the origin for the insert is set for tip tangent and everything looks good.  And it is good, but only if you want to use that insert in that very orientation and no other.  Rotate your insert 20 degrees, see the origin is floating in space.

If on the setup tab you input some non zero orientation it will end in a fail for any insert weather you use a tool holder or not.  As an example please select the 35 degree diamond insert and no tool holder.  What  you will see is the origin is not tip tangent even though that is selected and you have not even tried to rotate the insert to some other orientation. Then input an orientation like 20 deg.  Now it is very clear this system is broken as the origin is again off floating in space.  To demonstrate this, assume your new tool is usable and go and use it to turn the OD of a straight cylinder shaped bar.  It will look kind of OK because the yellow stock shows it was cut away but look closely, the tool path is above or below the part!!!!   Now post it out and look at the g-code.  The X value will not match the diameter of the bar you wanted to machine.

As far as I can tell, none of these orientation options, custom inserts, custom holders or selecting "no holder" options work properly.  Some look like they work but post them out in g-code and check that the code you get will actually cut the diameters and exact dimensions you are modeling.  

I know this sounds like a strong or unfriendly post and I apologize for that, I am trying to understand this like everybody else.  I know it is not your fault.  And I also realize that some of this code may work, I just have not been able to observe it yet.

Cheers

[Anonymous]

I forgot to mention that if you did use an insert with the holder specified as "no holder", there would be no way to specify if it is a right hand or left hand holder use.  This would not specify the "tip tangent" on one side of the insert or the other.

One partial work around I am considering is to  use "tip center".  It does seem to position the origin there properly if you select it.  I will investigate this more and report on it.  We could use multiple setups each with its own work offset.  Then after the machine is set up and ready to run you would configure the special offset for the tool that you wanted to rotate with an additional bump for the radius of the insert's tip.

[eellsd]

Coolfall beat me to it but yes I had tried to make a tool with no tool holder but the tip tangent compensation is wonky and it always fails just like he says.

[Matthew-R]

@eellsd

In response to your comment regarding the tip tangent setting when no holder is selected, I investigated this a bit and created this Screencast. If you could take a look and confirm that this is the issue that you experience, it would be great. I've passed this on to the development team and the issue logged with them is references as CAM-10418. Thanks!

https://knowledge.autodesk.com/community/screencast/871ead62-3461-49f0-801c-da4fd9d0c3fa

Screencast will be displayed here after you click Post.

871ead62-3461-49f0-801c-da4fd9d0c3fa

[eellsd]

Yeah that looks like it. Like @Anonymous said I think it is an issue to do with not being able to specify a tool as being right or left handed when there is no tool holder.

[Anonymous]

eellsd and Matthew,

The problem is there even when we are using a tool holder.

Matthew, I watched your video, thanks for your help.

This is a link to a post I made a few days ago before I found eelsd's post on the same subject.

https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/fusion-360-computer-aided/lathe-cam-tool-setup-orientation-bug/m-p/80...

This bug is not just without a tool holder.  Even with a tool holder selected, if you have to rotate the holder to any non zero angle it will give the same problem.  If you input some non zero orientation it will fail for any insert when you are using a tool holder.  

I think this has gone unnoticed partially because when you have a holder selected, the graph showing the origin of the tip tangent coordinate system is too tiny to see. 

The result of this error huge.  It is g-code that has the wrong value for every single move in X or in Z that is using a rotated tool in Fusion 360 lathe CAM!

If you want to check it yourself just do the test I outlined above.  Or I would be happy to talk on the phone if that helps.  I will do anything to help get this solved.  In my particular case I have a 35 degree diamond insert in a tool that has to be rotated only 5 degrees.  The result is an "X position" error in the g-code of about 0.006 inches.

Cheers

Dave

[angelo.juras]

Thanks everyone for the feedback. We are working on a future update to fix the tool/insert/holder issues.

[HughesTooling]

The irony here is this worked perfectly for about a year while it was in beta mode now it's released it broken!

See this thread for how it worked in beta mode.

https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/fusion-360-computer-aided/cannot-get-a-lathe-toolpath-to-work-with-th...

The same tool now.

Mark

[akash.kamoolkar]

Hey guys,

Just wanted to give you a heads up that this issue has been fixed in the December release of Fusion 360 which is now available to customers.

Regards,

Akash Kamoolkar

[Anonymous]

Akash and  other engineers/programmers responsible,

Thanks for fixing the trailing edge angle issue.  I tested it and it does indeed work in the cases I tried.

I do want to point out that the tool holder orientation still does not work.  

These two issues could be considered entangled because there are times when one needs to input a modified tool holder they also need to adjust its angle in the machine.

I thought I would point this out here and then direct the conversation to my thread that speaks directly to this bug:

https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/fusion-360-computer-aided/lathe-cam-tool-setup-orientation-bug/m-p/80...

Cheers

[akash.kamoolkar]

Hi @Anonymous

We're working on this issue right now and it should be available in an upcoming release.

Regards,

Akash Kamoolkar