FormIT speed

[Anonymous]

I find myself failing a lot of commands just because the delay between clicking and execution/refresh of the command. Drawing a polyline for an example requires me to pause and wait for the line to pop up in the screen before I can start drawing the next segment. In virtually every other drawing software out there it is _my_ speed and not the softwares that set the limit. It makes the overall experience a lot worse since the interface seem sluggish in drawing and rotating. I get that browsers are a limitation and that the experience might be different on a tablet, but there are quite a few of us that are still working on actual computers. Are there any plans to make a stand-alone version of the software to improve speed?

[Tobias_Hathorn]

Good points. I've found Firefox to be much more 'responsive' to my click interactions (due to some optimizations they do that Chrome doesn't yet do). So for starters I'd recommend FireFox for FormIt. 

Second is that the size of the model will definitely affect the performance of the app. Simple things like turning off shadows usually make a big difference. We have shadows off by default for this reason. Other things like adding furniture or imports with many facets / curves, etc will slow the model down too. So try to be 'frugal' with imports from other apps (like Revit or SketchUp).

Your last point about a standalone app, not running in a browser is something we talk alot about internally. I see your points about general performance and responsiveness that should be better in a desktop environment. What other reasons, or benefits can you see with a FormIt app running on your computer?

Thanks for your input on this and other threads!

Tobias

[Anonymous]

I agree that Firefox is a bit more responsive, but as we touched on in other posts it also tries to leave the FormIt page when you accidentally 'Shift+MW'. I’s annoying but can probably be suppressed.

I think the four main reasons for at least considering a desktop product are:

1. Speed/general performance: This one is more important that you think, most research lists 100ms in latancy as the limit for what the user experience as an instant reaction to input.
2. Evolution of browsers: They do change from time to time. New mouse/keyboard shortcuts are going to be implemented and change how we interact with them and it will impact the FormIt experience.
3. Corporate policy: Most companies have some kind of policy regarding what programs and browsers that are allowed on a computer, my former work-place had a web-based system for weekly reports and it didn’t work on anything later than IE7. It swings both ways I guess. In some places it is probably easier to approve and install a desktop product than change a browser that impacts other systems, but if you have the right browser version - firing up a web-page is a lot easier.
4. Internet dependency: Although I heard FormIt works without an internet connection after it has been buffered - can it even be started without one? I travel a lot by train from Stockholm to our different offices and there are a lot of tunnels the first thirty minutes or so. I like products that don’t require an internet connection for that reason.

[Tobias_Hathorn]

Thanks for the thoughtful response, Kexet!

You are right that FormIt web works after the app is loaded into a browser - you do need an internet connection to load it and the google image background. Then you can work without any connection at all - and export the model locally in order to save it - you can then upload the file back to A360 later when back online.

It's great to hear about this type of feedback about internal office IT restrictions.

Tobias

[thomdGMB]

I would echo all the comments from Kexet. In testing this as a possible alternative to our designers use of SketchUP, the speed thing for me is the most critical obstacle to our full blown use of FormIT 360. I find myself waiting for the lag time. With the way that we work, this kind of lag time simply cannot be tolerated. If a desktop app can fix this problem, I see no reason why we couldn't adopt a more robut use of this software. Until then, I think it might be necessary to maintain our current approach to digital workflow.

Also, we would be much more apt to use a desktop app because it would allow us to work anywhere. Quite often we travel to our clients and won't have an internet connection of any kind. This would prevent us from getting started in the first place. I am very excited about the FormIT software from my time at Autodesk University. I am looking forward to continuing to keep close tabs on your development. We will continue to look at how we can best use the software for our digital workflow. 

[Tobias_Hathorn]

Great Post Dan, and welcome to the Forums! Thanks for learning about FormIt at AU and exploring it as a solution.

We're making lots of progress on everything you just listed

- latency when loading the app or files when using the web app

- a new platform that will support offline work and better performance

- identifying performance bottlenecks and improving app speed

- identifying workflow issues and smoothing those out to enhance user's experience around performance

We'll have these improvements released before long and I'll be excited to see your and your designer's reactions.

In the meantime I'll send you a direct message to see if you're willing to share files or other specifics to help us ID other bottlenecks.

Thanks!

Tobias

[Tobias_Hathorn]

Quick update - I can't send you a direct message Danck... I think the system hasn't fully processed your new account yet. You can click on my name and a little pop-up dialog should appear with a text link to 'send direct message' to me...

In the mean time here's a short summary:

If you have a specific file - or specific tool - or specific steps where you're seeing consistently bad performance I'd love it if you could share your steps and file with us so we can address it.

For instance when working with another customer we discovered and fixed:

- going into and out of edit group mode was extremely slow

- model text imported from SKP was extremely slow in FormIt due to silhouette edges being overly calculated

And in recent weeks Chrome had a GIANT BUG that was causing our app's load time to take forever! This was just resolved in v48 of Chrome

I use Firefox for best performance - and turn off shadows, grid, and silhouettes for even better performance

[Chad-Smith]

I check out FormIt from time to time to see how it is progressing, and when it will be at a point of being usable.

I would like to throw my comment into the discussion that performance is still a massive issue. I have approximately a 3 second delay after using most commands. I'm using Chrome >v48. I don't/won't use any other browser.

I too would like to see an installable product. I feel this is about the only way to get the performance the product deserves, not to mention probably the only way it will compete with SketchUp performance too.

I'm predominently testing workflows using converted Revit Families in FormIt.

[tvollaro]

Chad,

Glad to see you on the forums and checking out FormIt! That is a real bummer about the Chrome performance. If I remember from back in my Revit days, you are located in Australia, correct? Not that it should have much impact on peformance, since once FormIt is loaded, all the interactions are local to the machine.  That said, we hear you! Stay tuned, we have something in the works that will directly address your request!

[Chad-Smith]

Yes Australia, good memory. 

I think I've figured out why mine was performing extra slow at times.

Because I'm more interested in a workflow using components, after loading in a component sourced and converted from the SketchUp Warehouse, when these are placed into the FormIt project it goes really slow.

Even after the SketchUp component is deleted from the project, that slowness in performance remains. Here is a recording demonstrating this.

[Tobias_Hathorn]

Hi Chad - Thanks for the video example! The voice over + examples really helps us dig into the issue. I'll research it now. 

A few performance tips I may have mentioned earlier, but with this case in particular:

• Turn off Shadows - you've already done this
• Turn off Silhouettes - this is more pertinent to your case with the curvy planter - go to settings icon, visual styles, uncheck Display silhouettes (DO keyboard shortcut)
• Turn off Grid - this one is a bit more minor but should help with performane.

In your case we're seeing a couple of bugs - so I don't think these three bullets will really help in your case - but for general FormIt use, these are tips.

Thanks, I'll post again if I have some feedback on the SKP planter example.

Tobias

[Tobias_Hathorn]

I took a look by finding 3 different sizes of planters on the SKP Warehouse, and this is definitely to do with Silhouettes in FormIt. When I turn those off the performance is MUCH better. Thanks for the diagnostic technique of using rotate and then clicking off into space.

There is the other issue you bring up - after deleting the planter, the performance does not return to previous speed. I'll file a bug and see if I have any suggestions for you. My thinking is that the session will be impacted, but the file will not be - so the next time you open the file it should be fine. I'll verify if that's the case.

Thanks,

Tobias

[Chad-Smith]

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@Tobias_Hathorn wrote:

I took a look by finding 3 different sizes of planters on the SKP Warehouse, and this is definitely to do with Silhouettes in FormIt. When I turn those off the performance is MUCH better.

---

I tried turning the Display Silhouettes off, but that had minimal effect in my case. But, I did find that turning Display Edges off helped more.

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@Tobias_Hathorn wrote:

My thinking is that the session will be impacted, but the file will not be - so the next time you open the file it should be fine.

---

I can confirm on mine that saving a slow project (with SketchUp object deleted) and then reopening it will restore the performance.

[Anonymous]

Our office is trying to implement FormIt in our workflow as it seems to be the perfect step toward a connection with Sketchup. However, the conversion time alone is having us question the usefulness. For a very simple house the conversion time has been roughly 3 hours, and we do not have a dedicated machine for such things. After clocking the processing performance during the conversion, I'm noticing that it is not taking up much memory. I would argue to program the conversion to take up more memory as would a rendering process (upwards of 6X what it is using on my machine at the moment given my computers processing speed (i5, 3.2 GHz, 16 GB ram). Another suggestion would be to farm out the conversion, just like Revit's render farm. Anything for quicker conversion and that will allow for continued productivity at a work station. 

Thanks!

[Tobias_Hathorn]

Hi - I did not expect your comment to be about translation speed - I thought it would be on general FormIt performance! We're making vast improvements to the rendering / navigation / file open performance now - these changes will be in the app in the coming months!

As for file translation - I can't tell from your email where you're seeing the SLOW...

• When importing SKP to FormIt?
• When Importing FormIt to Revit?

There are MANY tricks for this - most of them have to do with chunking out the data you're sending.

• For SKP, I recommend going layer by layer into FormIt - because otherwise EVERYTHING in your SKP file gets imported - including elements on layers that are turned OFF. If you have a CAD import, entourage, or detailed furniture in your model - these can take forever. Go for the most valuable things like relevant building elements first - and keep adding as necessary. This will SPEED things up, and you can save after each import.
• For FormIt to Revit - same story - you can keep Importing more and more FormIt stuff into the same RVT file. So I recommend going either Layer by Layer, or Group by Group - whatever is logical. This way the time spent converting is much less, and you can visually validate what was successfully imported and what wasn't.

Our import between FormIt and Revit is in the process of improving dramatically too. If you're interested I can test your conversion myself to identify any bugs. I'll DM you to discuss further.

Thanks for posting on the forums!

Tobias

[Anonymous]

would like to know how to get it to quit lagging just to put the furniture in to the house I'm doing for school its taking hrs to put in just a couch grabbed it from sketch up cause that's all we have access to just to do the project it has taken me 19hrs so far and still not done shouldn't take so long is there a way to make it faster still learning the program but would be nice to know for future any help is nice only have 3 days left to get it done thanks

[josh.goldstein]

Chad,

Sorry for the performance struggles you're experiencing. You can try turning off Shadows, Ambient Shadows, Silhouette Edges, and Grid in the Visual Styles panel. You can also try deleting extra geometry or images in the file, and doing some model clean up in SketchUp before importing it into FormIt (try purging unused). Alternately, you might pick a couch with fewer polygons.

The good news is, we'll be releasing an update later this month that will make FormIt many times faster than what you're currently seeing. Speaking from experience, I'm very optimistic that your file will be much more usable when the update rolls out.

[jamesgl]

Our team is experience extreme delays due to the software's lack of performance.

I am a proponent of Revit and am seeking an alternate solution to Sketchup. So we dove right in to Formit and now am having many regrets.

12 hours to attempt to incorporate data (pool elements, entourage, etc.) from other apps (SU, Max, Revit, etc.) is not a workable solution. Nor is 2+ hours to import a Formit model into Revit, only to find no materials included.

I am hopeful Formit will improve rapidly and provide a more seamless interoperablity with Revit. We need a solution for fast design development that can be leveraged into detailed documents.

[Tobias_Hathorn]

Hi James - We have a new release pending that should address many of the concerns you bring up (performance, material translation, and conversion speed). I'll send you a direct message to follow up.

Thanks for posting,

Tobias