Flame Unleashed – New Prices, New Platforms – ALL FLAME!

Grant.Kay
Alumni
Alumni

Flame Unleashed – New Prices, New Platforms – ALL FLAME!

Grant.Kay
Alumni
Alumni
Hi Everyone,
 
I wanted to share some exciting news if you haven’t already heard!
 
We have just announced some exciting changes for our Flame Family 
 
There are more ways then ever before to get on Flame!
  • Flame now available with Desktop Subscription Plans 
  • Flare and Flame Assist available as standalone products (No Flame Premium required)
  • Buy your own hardware 
  • Flame will be coming soon to Mac OS X !
This is really exciting and please visit http://flameunleashed.com to more information.
 
Kind Regards
Grant

Grant Kay
Principal Learning Content Developer

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The Official Autodesk Flame Learning Channel
http://www.youtube.com/flamehowtos

The Official Autodesk Smoke Learning Channel
http://www.youtube.com/smokehowtos

Also available as podcasts on iTunes

Follow me on twitter @discreetuk for the latest training updates.
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Anonymous
Not applicable

Great news. Congratulations to autodesk . This is what all we were expecting... really great news for a new age.

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arichards
Collaborator
Collaborator

Wow, amazing news! Not sure what the educational deals will be on this, but I am very excited about the idea of us using Flame at our university. We have Smoke running on a number of macs and a finishing suite (we call 'The Parlour') built around Smoke/Scratch/Resolve and would love to exchange out Smoke for Flame. I felt it was a matter of time and this is great news that Flame is available on mac and debundled. Great move!

 

Cheers

Tony

HP Z840, 80GB Ram, Quadro M6000x24GB
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Anonymous
Not applicable

Its great news and if handled well should generate the same noise for Flame that Smoke 2013 did but hopefully with a better ending!

 

I welcome all the new Flame guys this will bring into the fold but it wont work unless AD solves the standalone backburner style issues for the soon to be one man post houses. 

 

The reality now is

Avid  40 buck

Resolve free

Flame 750

Adobe CC 50

bunch of little things 150

youre in the post game for 1 grand a month with nothing up front apart from hardware.

 

New mac pro, accusys raid and a LG UM95 should set you back 10k total.

 

What a time to be alive.

 

Mike

yann.laforest
Autodesk
Autodesk

Hi Mike,

 

Can you please be more explicit on the backburner style issues you are referring to?

 

We addressed the whole backburner situation more than a year ago and the number of reports we received for backburner related issues over the last year is very low.

 

We are curious to know if we are missing issues.

 

If so, be assure that we are committed to address them.

 

 

 

Regards,

Yann

 

 

 

Yann Laforest

Program Manager Data Analytics - Autodesk EMS
10 rue Duke Street
Montréal (Québec) Canada H3C 2L7
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Anonymous
Not applicable

Not inferring any outstanding Backburner issues more the level of commitment it needs to install Flame updates with new DKU etc etc - in Flame land we pay support and the guy comes over and it generally takes half a day of unix guru shaking his head and saying 'that's odd' and then having to back step and do some command line mojo to get things running smoothly.

 

Its a well spent 5 grand a year but if you have Flames on mac they demand mac quality single click installers like we have with smoke and Flame Assist. I still have issues with Flame Assist 2016 (all versions) with odd graphics issues that I dont see in Flame Assist 2015 on the same hardware and same OS (actually the same physical machine) - its no big drama i just settled for doing this show in the older version but its the sort of thing that Mac users wont stand for - over in Avid land people are freaking out because they cant use El Capitan and Media Composer yet... Its a different crowd and I want you guys to capture that crowd as making things fly for the non-technical make things better for us all.

 

I know the performance of my 16x fibre and Red Hat HP will be faster than any mac i can get but for me I welcome the Mac version as I love bouncing into other apps without having to move my chair 🙂

 

Its great news, now get the news out to the masses and kill the competition !

 

Mike

Anonymous
Not applicable
+1 to what Mike said. Very excited about the new changes, but you guys are going to have to stress to people that ethernet configs are sacred, and not to put these apps on their laptops, or you're going to have an avalanche of people calling about being unable to export.

The pricing is great, but it doesn't change the fact that Flame and Lustre require serious skill to use and administrate.
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Anonymous
Not applicable

"Its great news, now get the news out to the masses and kill the competition!"

 

Mike, just bought into Flame and got a Z840 with everything. We all know that only on Linux, a powerful Z-Box and all the other good stuff, plus a hardware maintainace subcription, and 36524 linux voodoo a secure and reliable post production on high level is possible. And, even more importantly, the guy behind the tablet must be extraordinary. Otherwise the hero suite will be only a cappuccino/sushi place with Herman Miller Aerons and a debunking, disappointing video-show on shiny displays.

 

Flame is not about budget, but much more about quick turnarounds and high-end results. Nothing for the masses. I don't think that the competition will be killed, perhaps a bit re-arranged. At least in my market this has been overdue.

 

Lastly, mastering Flame is a lifetime challenge. To survive as a senior Flame artist in commercial land takes more than just a Flame subscription with an iMac.

 

Hans

Anonymous
Not applicable

Mastering anything takes a lifetime in art. Learning the machines takes no time. The more people get access to these boxes the faster they develop, a large user base means diverse requests leading to a broader product for us all. I would never ever have worked in Prores 4444 before this job yet I'm finding no issues as its shot 4444 on the Alexa. Thats a bonus of the widening user base. 

 

Flame needn't be an exclusive club. When it was a million bucks with an Onyx, D1s etc it was a small club of rich investor types dictating who got to play on the boxes. A few of us made it up the foodchain and got to be part owners but that's all it ever was, a neccesary partnership with money men who in the final analysis ran rings around us artists.

 

Later Floctane happened and it could be had on an affordable computer so I bought another one but even then it was still painful, should we buy a house or a flame is a tough question to ask your girlfriend... The less said about Tezros the better.

 

When it went to Linux and HP computers it became a possibility again, and with the lower prices coming of the Smoke 2013 experiment I did it again but the Flame I currently own is the only one I ever paid cash for, it was still a chunk of change - but it was an apartment not a house this time at least and my wife is much more understanding than my previous girlfriends...

 

I'm 100% in on rental, I'm 100% in on Mac too. The HP boxes are fast as hell, they are as powerful as you dream of, but there's a loss of speed dealing with moving files around to pop into Nuke or photoshop or resolve etc. I'm on a show working remotely right now in Flame Assist and its seriously fast on a fairly well optimised mac with SSD raid. The benefits of having every application on one box for me outweighs the render speed advantages of the HP. But more importantly I'm really over fibre raids screaming like a jetplane meaning I need a soundproof server room when a couple of Accusys A08s are only slightly slower and practically silent and half the cost.

 

All post is about budget these days, Flame is not immune. Its strength is the fast turnaround as it means you CAN do jobs on a tight budget, lower the barrier to entry just means more jobs can get done in Flame.

 

But what does Flame on Mac mean for Flame Assist? I'm hoping there will be a nice upgrade path from Flame Assist to full Flame seats. 

 

Im hoping for a dongle or avid or adobe style licensing rather than flexlm so I can use my license on different computers rather than the juggling we currently do. Flexibility in license use is a hige deal for me. Id love to be able to use my flame on HP at the office then go on the road running the same license on a more portable system while my main suite sits idle while I'm not there.

 

We all have to be lean and agile these days, I came here on holiday for two weeks but picked up 3 months work - I have film in Bangok in January and a series in Canada in March. Moving a HP/dothill flame around wont be happening. But 2 or 3 flames on mac thats something I can get behind.

 

Mike

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Anonymous
Not applicable

that is great. best thing for me ist to use it on a mac, coz that means i can use flame for tasks where flame shines but i can use other software on the same platform where i think they perform better. that can make a flame a central conform product, for last refinements, client presentations and so on, but at the same time i use i.e. nuke to create very vfx heavy shots, or AE for my graphics, and i can very easily switch back and forth without moving to another room or machine. great.

 

let's see how it all works and if we can change our linux license to a mac one.

 

i guess our tainees will hate this news, coz starting tomorrow they have to learn flame now 😉

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Anonymous
Not applicable

The biggest benificiaries of this announcement are all the flame installs that fell off subscriptions. What it essentially means is an end to the penalties for not renewing. 

 

If you have a flame and you buy new subscription today you are immediately back up to date without having a forklift upgrade.

 

This is vital to stopping the drain of users to nuke and will lead to more flame seats in post houses as people see the new features they have been missing out on. Course they will have to make an Irix version to pick up a lot of the flames out there...

 

Mike

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Anonymous
Not applicable

 Up next - Flod.

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Anonymous
Not applicable

hey Mike,

 

imo the only way to stop the drain of users, not only to nuke, but to any other software is to increase the product quality and functionality. when i started with flame (about 20 Years ago) it was kind of strage in terms of how to use it. like no timeline, or the three folder libary, or the desktop reels, but every tool inside the box was the best tool on the planet. flame once had the best tracker, the best keyer (yes, even better than cineon), best color correction, best roto tools, best way to combine a 3D workspace with a 2D workfow, you name it... and it had the best performance at the same time (even when you compare with software on the same platform like i.e. cineon oder illusion). and it was super reliable. so the product really was one of a kind.

look at it today. i really don't want to blame it, it still has good quality tools inside. but it is not longer supreme in all tasks. a few tools are imo still the best on the planet. but most are either average, or even bad. and what i think is even worse, adesk do not listen to the users at all. they change things or build in "features" that every flame artists hate, and the answer of adesk is allways the same: "you are the only one who hates this, everybody else loves this feature, you just have to learn it" sounds familliar?

so what i like with this new plan to give away flame for free coz this is what it really is, they are giving away flame for free now and the only thing you do is still pay the mainenance. they just changed the name mainenance to subscription.

but the real big deal is that now, hopefully many people from other software solutions will try flame, compare it with their solutions and give their feedback, and maybe, if we are lucky, adesk will listen coz they are simply way more people than we just few flame users today.

imo one of the problems with flame today is not a lack of technical skills of their engineers, i think that the problem is that the decision makers do not really understand their product anymore. Just remember the 20th aniversary talk on nab, where they had the first flame users to talk about flame. and one of them said: "jeah well these new features are all fancy and that but i can do it 5 times faster with one action on the desktop" and then he even proved it, live, without any preperation. and the only effect was that phillipe changed his face colors and said something like "well this is the way it is now" or "oh thats kind of an oldschool way"

they simply don't understand what flame is about, and what great features they already had.

 

but let's see, hopefully this will bring way more users who want to learn flame, and mybe adesk will listen to them.and hopefully they will not all come from fcpx  😉

 

but for the adesk members here, i know this is just me who thinks this way, everybody else loves it the way it is. 😉

Anonymous
Not applicable

I think the days of them saying 'im telling you thats the way it is now' are well and truly behind them after the 2013 fun and games. They are listening, and they are upgrading the creative tools.

 

The best example off the top of my head is the new gmask tracer, it plays catch up with what we've been asking or in terms of nuke style roto flexibility with group scale and rotate and temp offset axis independent of the actual point interpolation, but then ADDS to that and puts in the tracer in out keyer to actually become the best in class roto tool out there. 

 

Its easy to wax lyrical about the 'good old days' when flame had the best of everything but that was in a time when they literally had the only tracker, the only displacement surfaces and ran on computers 10 or more times faster than anyone else. But that came with a premium that meant I had to work 18 hours days 7 days a week to buy my first flame and I only owned 1/3 of it even then having had to sell my soul to money men.

 

If I had any complaint/suggestion going forwards it would be to let go of the insistence on building all the tools. By which i mean just license mocha or neat video or primatte rather than investing time recreating the same tools. Its not only an easy accelerant to development but it also allows user migration as the tools are familiar.

 

The big mistake of the last 10 years has been a crazy insistence on 3d integration as though we want to make cg in flame when a client can have a week of a maya guy for the same price... But that baton has been passed and Will is a real world flame user, hence the renewed look at usability and process streamlining. And it has a LONG way to go but its at least going in the right direction now.

 

There is still a crazy insistence on overengineering things such as the new 10 contexts instead of just alt1 alt 2 to set a context and 1 2 to look at them we get a drop down and bump menus etc.. but im confident that will get straightened out soon enough. For me the greater opportunity is to streamline the GUI, the zoom in paint should be the same zoom as everywhere else, the gmask axis etc in tracer is exactly like in action so apply that to classic gmask too. The move to adding tabs to explode groups rather than messing up the node graph is the way to go and there's a lot of similar inconsistencies that need addressing.

 

Once thats all straightened out then they can look at features, but first and foremost useability is the go. i recently came to the UK on a project that grew so while sorting out my flame assist license i used a copy of smoke 2015 in demo. Wow, so horrible after flame 2016. If you doubt its getting better you need to try going backwards. Loading and saving batches at left, nodes at right, 2 up etc are all pretty streamlined. I still don't like the russian doll multilevel saving but reel groups and sticky reels kick ****.

 

The new version is still in flux and theres still a ton of things we could do faster in pre-anniversary simply because the desktop tools were so fast to access after 20 years of stabbing buttons on the screen rather than using shortcuts or drop down menus, swap shot and reel grouping come quickly to mind. that could all have been easily addressed by adding a swipe down to reveal the 'classic' menu structure but its probably too late for that now.

 

2016 ext 1 has addressed screen resolution independence and it now works wonderfully on my 21:9 LG UM95, hardware antialiasing, background reactor and so on all add to the fun. Will burn now be available for OSX? If not put it on the wish list.

 

Its barely been mentioned but Python hooks in flame will make extending shots to management packages like shotgun a reality with subscriptions to iterations letting VFX supers get approvals done without messing about with flame. This is flame growing up and finally becoming a team player rather than the flame island shots go to and come back from. Its still a huge pain in the **** to comp cg in flame compared to nuke which needs sorting out, id almost suggets a toxik tab so the cg guys can prep a tree and supply a sidecar file with their version of the 3d precomp saving lots of time for online worling out what left left and left right are and the rest.

 

I have a long list of gripes with the current flame, but despite that list the current flame is rapidly heading the right direction and this new free flame will change things so long as it works out of the box on day one. If theres any instability its done and people wont look again then the product dies when we retire. The saddest outcome from the 2013 experiment was that none of the young guys who got excited about smoke stuck around. They looked, the played they said no. And sadly thats part of the reality of flame operation, you can't dabble. If you wanna be a flame guy you got to learn your stuff and you got to put the hours in. In a world of Red Giant Universe, Videohive templates and Magic Bullet I dont know how many people will have the neccesary level of dedication.

 

Ultimately the legend that is Flame is based more than anything on the simple fact that its been tough as hell to become a flame artist, so if you booked a flame suite you got a consumate professional who lived and breathed the box. I wonder if that attitude will survive the inclusion of new more casual flame users. Its probably ultimately not even that important, there's room for people at the sharp end but there's a much larger space for people who can do most stuff in a flame. At the end of the day more flames means more flame work.

 

The most exciting part of all this is people are talking about flame again, but this time its a real product not the erm smoke and mirrors that 2013 was.

 

Mike

Anonymous
Not applicable

Congratulations to Autodesk! You’re back in the game!! Your decision is late, but great.

 

And it’s true Mike, people and post production companies will now talk about Flame again and not only transferring their workflow to Nuke Studio. And yeah, you’re right, more flames, more work. 😉

 

But… But there’s one big thing, which will stop this euphoria in me immediately. If Autodesk doesn’t change this insane (marketing driven) archive incompatibility rubbish, no post house or freelancer who was “forced” to Smoke Desktop Subscription will find a way back to Flame or Flame Assist.

 

You surely remember the debate after Smoke 2015 Perpetual was killed. It was a horrible disaster for us Flame freelancers who owned a Smoke on Mac. Every freelancer I know was screaming for a cross-upgrade to Flame Assist. But no reaction from Autodesk. So at the moment we can’t work really well in collaboration with other Smoke Desktop Versions or newer Flames. Because of the man-made incompatibility of the archives.

 

For sure, a lot of post houses are going to update their Smoke Desktop Subscriptions to Flames or Flame Assists now. That’s an important and good thing I think. And it supports the all-day plan from Autodesk to leave behind Smoke as a low-end video editing tool for editors.

 

But what’s about their Smoke Archives? If they aren’t compatible to the new 2016 EXT2 versions, like at the moment (correct me if I missed something) this way up the road for them will be terminated! So please, Autodesk, correct this decision too, you can do it!  Otherwise I’ll see the next dark clouds at the horizon….

 

So long..

Timo

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Anonymous
Not applicable

theres two ways forward.

 

One is to let you share a floating license back a 'version' to Smoke 2015 so you can redo old jobs in the old system (not ideal) or a conversion utility that converts your archive in the same way that projects can be updated into new versions. 

 

Either way won't hurt AD as I'm pretty sure both guys using Smoke 2016 ext 2 will upgrade anyway.

 

Mike

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arichards
Collaborator
Collaborator

Are prices out or available yet for educational licences of Flame? Also, I notice digging down into the q&a that the Tangen elements colour panels are not supported on the mac side. Not the end of the world but it was my understanding from the blurb video that nothing would be "artificially switched off." We have the tangent elements for use on Assimilate Scratch and Resolve and it would be great (if we move from Smoke to Flame) to be able to use these on the colour warper.

 

Cheers

Tony

HP Z840, 80GB Ram, Quadro M6000x24GB
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yann.laforest
Autodesk
Autodesk

Hi Tony,

 

Please contact your Autodesk sales representative or reseller for all pricing related questions (including educational).

 

 

 

Regards,

Yann 

Yann Laforest

Program Manager Data Analytics - Autodesk EMS
10 rue Duke Street
Montréal (Québec) Canada H3C 2L7
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arichards
Collaborator
Collaborator
Thanks for the prompt reply Yann. We used to get our licences from Jigsaw24 but then desktop subscription became an "autodesk direct" thing for education. I notice that Jigsaw no longer have Smoke listed (still listed as partner. Would XTFX be the sole UK representative?
HP Z840, 80GB Ram, Quadro M6000x24GB
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yann.laforest
Autodesk
Autodesk

Hi Tony,

 

Thanks for getting back to me.

 

Yes, XTFX is the Autodesk partner (reseller) for your area.

 

As a side note, the users who would need to locate a reseller for their area / region can refer to the link below:

 

http://www.autodesk.com/resellers/locate-a-reseller

 

 

 

Please let me know if you have any other questions,

 

 

 

Regards,

Yann

 

 

Yann Laforest

Program Manager Data Analytics - Autodesk EMS
10 rue Duke Street
Montréal (Québec) Canada H3C 2L7
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