New EAGLE licensing

[jorge_garcia2]

Hello Everyone,

In this post we will be briefly describing how the new subscription model for EAGLE works.

Firstly, the Autodesk licensing model is subscription based and the EAGLE paid license will require that you install the SW and then generate an account on accounts.autodesk.com to retrieve your license entitlement.   

If you lose your network connection, the SW has a 14-day heartbeat that will enable you to work offline for 14 days.

All of your data is stored locally, so you are in complete control of your data.

We will continue to provide the freeware version of EAGLE. In order to use it you will still need to register an account with Autodesk.

In an upcoming release we will be adjusting the software so in the worst case scenario, where internet is unavailable past 14 days, the software will revert to free mode. That way you can always review your designs.

You can review the current EAGLE pricing by visiting this page.

[Anonymous]

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@clarkhELAS6 wrote:

I am 90% hobbyist/10% business user. I have spent >>$1.5K in the last few years just be cause Eagle was my favorite tool and I wanted to support it. I am sad that my most cynical worries have come to pass.

My solution:

sudo apt-get install kicad kicad-common kicad-doc-en

😞

---

I don't work for Autodesk or Cadsoft, but I've got to ask, if you've already invested the time and money on EAGLE, why bail out now?  Your copy will still work the same way it has since you started.

I'm not going to sign up for a subscription any time soon, but neither am I going to stop using EAGLE.  If you're like me, you've invested a lot of hours in learning it and customizing it.  Why give that up?

[Anonymous]

we know for a FACT that our current versions of perpetual license do check the cadsoft website for licensing... how long before autodesk decides that they want to turn off our copy? based on this little stunt, i don't trust autodesk as far as i could throw 10000 pound block...

Dave

[mecworks]

For me at least, I'll continue using it for my current projects but due to the ramp-up time in using a new tool, tutorials, test projects, etc, I need to get busy with the new tool now, not waste time using a tool I know is a dead end.

[Anonymous]

I'm not going to do a hard stop. That would be silly! BUT - I will need...need...to start learning new skills now. I am _never_ content to stick my head in the sand and try to pretend that change doesn't matter. And these changes matter.

[Anonymous]

So Matt. I'm yet to see an explanation as to why anyone should believe someone who assured us this wouldn't be happening a few short months ago. Who's to say anyone who subscribes won't be held hostage by Autodesk upping the price and charging whatever they want down the line? Trust has evaporated overnight. Assurances mean nothing when past assurances have amounted to nothing.

[tek_guy]

Haha. Love reading the latest firestorm on the new subscription model, complete with misgivings and misinformation. I prefer the perpetual license approach myself, but eagle IS the least expensive commercially viable solution out there. I've tried GEDA and KiCAD and realized many many hours of my time would be spent trying to make those packages into a productive workflow. I prefer to spend my time cranking boards out 😉

Still, there is a lot of disparity in the subscription pricing. The gap from Standard to Pro was basically 2X in price, and as reported by many, standard had 6 layers vs 2. Now, the new standard license is actually "virtual cheaper" by Autodesk's math of a single user subscriber who purchases a new license every three years(assuming no upgrade discount for existing license holders, which I don't believe was ever the case).

What I would propose is an intermediate license tier:

6-layers; keep at 99 schematic pages if you like, or maybe increase to 199 pages; PCB area equivalent to an 8"x12" board area; for $250 annual.

That would be a sweet "value spot" for a lot of people. While I don't like subscription models, I understand the need to generate revenue in order to stay afloat and keep improving the product. I think the "coffee/latte" marketing never works and is usually seen as a ruse. I say think about how much you spend on your CellPhone, TV, and Internet. Generally, you can't generate something that will produce income with those(although the phone and internet can enable it, I suppose).

Who among the unhappy, would be satisfied with something like the $25 tier above? This still likely excludes those who are opposed to all subscription based models and will never, EVER pay for a subscription as they climb onto their roof to adjust their over the air antenna every time the wind blows it off kilter 😉

[Anonymous]

I'll be happy when they go back to the perpetual license, apologise for misleading the existing user base (I.e. we  won't go subscription any time soon) and promise it won't happen again. Until then I wouldn't believe that the $250 license I get this year won't cost me $500 next year. I of course am not holding my breath waiting.

[ayorkR8GD6]

Really Sad....

I'm just a hobbyist.  I will be switching anyway.  I think this is going to kill the program, so no more wasting time on it.  I need my designs to be safe and editable.  

So the hobbyist go away and EagleCad turns into a second or third place product.  The companies that create the library files quit seeing the value in it.   Now one of the attractive things about EagleCad goes away.  

Well, I'll look back to see if people at the big desk come to their senses, but I'm downloading DipTrace a we speak.  As their prices make sense, I might actually buy it.  

[jan.slott]

I have to say, that for me, as I understand the new subscription model, it will probably be cheaper for me.

I use Eagle for designing new hardware in short periods, like 1-2 months and then not for some months (only using viewing when working with firmware and other stuff). So if I go with a monthly subscription and cancels directly I will only pay (sort of) when working. And when I occasionally need 4 layers or more I will simple go for a month with the Premium subscription. And in between I will just use the free version for viewing and maybe produce gerbers if needed (which is still possible as I understand it).

The only thing I wished is that the Standard editions at least had 4-layer support. But as said, I can go for the Premium on short periods when I need more layers. And of course this might make me need to plan my work and focus even more on the hardware design in periods.

[Anonymous]

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@matt.berggren wrote:

Hi!

Curious, with regard to the "we do only a few boards a year" argument...Why wouldn't you prefer to only pay for the SW if/when you need it?  This is at the heart of the subscription model.  The software becomes affordable for someone who uses it only time to time and it can be turned off any time, if/when you decide you dont need it or the features are something you feel didnt live up to your expectations / meet your needs.  

Best regards,

Matt - Autodesk.

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Matt,

have you ever had a one- or a few-man company? I guess not, you would uderstand very clearly in that case I think. For me Eagle is dead, sadly, after more than 20years it is quite a big investment - no money, I in fact do not know how much I have already paid for all the upgrades, but a lot of time spent with learning, customisation, library management and so on is a loss.

Nevermind, I have started the migration, having enough time for it. Possibly it could even be a thing which could kick me forward, because a lot of my Eagle stuff is already quite obsolete after that time. Honestly, I am not token by surprise, I have expected Eagle's death since Autodesk purchased it.

So now it is time to say good bye and good luck under Autodesk's wing

[Anonymous]

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@matt.berggren wrote:

Hi!

Curious, with regard to the "we do only a few boards a year" argument...Why wouldn't you prefer to only pay for the SW if/when you need it?  This is at the heart of the subscription model.  The software becomes affordable for someone who uses it only time to time and it can be turned off any time, if/when you decide you dont need it or the features are something you feel didnt live up to your expectations / meet your needs.  

Best regards,

Matt - Autodesk.

---

Matt,

have you ever had a one- or a few-man company? I guess not, you would uderstand very clearly in that case I think. For me Eagle is dead, sadly, after more than 20years it is quite a big investment - no money, I in fact do not know how much I have already paid for all the upgrades, but a lot of time spent with learning, customisation, library management and so on is a loss.

Nevermind, I have started the migration, having enough time for it. Possibly it could even be a thing which could kick me forward, because a lot of my Eagle stuff is already quite obsolete after that time. Honestly, I am not token by surprise, I have expected Eagle's death since Autodesk purchased it.

So now it is time to say good bye and good luck under Autodesk's wing

---

I agree with above. I too will be migrating to probably kicad. I just started a new generation of products under Eagle and while it's being debugged I'll be transistioning this first proto to KiCad (and see how it goes). From that initial design we can go further in our development path.

Eagle 7 can be used for older designs which will gradually fade away. We used this scheme for Ultiboard to Eagle and it went surprisingly fast. Almost from day 1 Ultiboard was not needed anymore.

And I'll be deactivating my account here. Too many mails of people telling the same over and over while people from Autocad not respond in depth to those risen issues. I myself had to repeat multiple times I have 3 licenses and then nobody responded anymore. Oh well. Don't care.

[Anonymous]

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@tek_guy wrote:

<snip>

That would be a sweet "value spot" for a lot of people. While I don't like subscription models, I understand the need to generate revenue in order to stay afloat and keep improving the product. I think the "coffee/latte" marketing never works and is usually seen as a ruse. I say think about how much you spend on your CellPhone, TV, and Internet. Generally, you can't generate something that will produce income with those(although the phone and internet can enable it, I suppose).

Who among the unhappy, would be satisfied with something like the $25 tier above? This still likely excludes those who are opposed to all subscription based models and will never, EVER pay for a subscription as they climb onto their roof to adjust their over the air antenna every time the wind blows it off kilter 😉

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I will have to pay 3 times the price for my current version when i ever decided to update to v8. Offering a'sweet spot' option would mean that i get half the options for the same money!?

You can twist it like you want, with the new subscription model the price is rising x3. It is not that i am against subscription in general.

I am against being ripped off (by a large company, which bought an existing software solution and just wants to make revenue from it for it's share holders).

[Anonymous]

3 user full version Diptrace costs me 706 EUR per person. Eagle costs me 545 EUR per person, per year.... Upgrade is about 25% of of license cost. Soooo let's take 2 years. Diptrace: 706 *1.25 = 882.5 EUR, Eagle: 545*2 = 1090 EUR.

Sigh... I can't understand why a big company like autodesk didn't do some simple comparisons.

[rc]

I agree that the subscription pricing is annoying, however, the real issue (for me) is the subscription model itself.

I wonder how long it will take till antitrust authorities and regulators will step in? (in Europe at least probably not too long) - subscription combines the lack of readily available substitutes (= the situation we have until now due to proprietary file formats etc., making it hard to insantly jump the train) with the unrestrict possibility to raise the price at will. This is pretty close to the idea of an monopoly and the opposite of competition. So while in the areas of conventional business antitrust is a sharp sword, in software land this does not really seem to come to the attention.

That's also why the Espresso analogy is incorrect and misleading. For your daily espresso, you can choose between X places and swap at any time - and you'd not consider entering into a subscription agreement with your coffee bar. 

So the the price right now is of limited relevance as it can be increased any time and there is no certainty as to what the price will really be for the next 3 or 5 years of use. 

[Anonymous]

As Standard user I REQUIRE 4 layers....typically I pay several hundred dollars here and there to upgrade Eagle.

Now the basic edition has ONLY 2 Layers?!!!  Doesn't anyone at Autodesk know anything about modern boards?

Now it appears I must use the top-line version & pay $500 FIIVE HUNDRED DOLLARS!!!!!!!!!! 

EVERY YEAR?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  WHETHER THARE ARE ANY UPGRADES SUPPLIED OR NOT?!~!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

EAGLE, THE LAST SEVERAL YEARS HAS BEEN NEARLY A 100% TOTAL LOSER IN TERMS OF UPGRADES---THIS HAS BEEN WELL DOCUMENTED, DISCUSSED AND ACKNOWLEDGED BY EVEN AUTODESK.

NOW THEY THINK WE SHOULD SUDDENLY JUST START FLOWING A RIVER OF $$$ THEIR WAY FOR ESSENTIALLY NO ASSURANCE OF ANY UPGRADES OR FIXES.

TO TOP IT OFF, IF SOMEONE IS STUPID ENOUGH TO SIGN UP FOR THIS SUBSCRIPTION, ONCE THEY SEE THE UPGRADES ARE NOT FORTHCOMING, OR THE UPGRADES ARE JUNK, OR THE PRICE OF THE SUBSCRIPTION DOUBLES, THEIR  ENTIRE INVESTMENT WILL BE LOST, SINCE THEIR INSTALL WILL THEN NO LONGER BE USABLE FOR DESIGNS ONCE THEY REFUSE TO CONTINUE THE CHARADE!!!!!!!!!!!

THE WORD IS SPREADING HOW MUCH BTTER KICAD IS CERTAINLY BECOMING AND LOOKING

[smith_brandon]

I will also say that most upgrades that PCB CAD programs have released in the last couple years have been useless to me.

* Altium's cloud services: never used it, have my own file/version control system fully supported by my IT department.

* Altium and Eagle's supplier links: never touched them.  Have my own supply chain management.

* Altium's various embedded dev tools: made me laugh.  Never supported the processors I used and would never have hooked into our software dev chain anyway.

* Various fan-out and routing help features: meh.  Eagle's differential trace is barely usable and Altium's is barely any better.  I still end up just doing them by hand in the end anyway.  BGA fanout is the same story.  I like Eagle's autorouter better, but Altium has better interactive routing.

Generally I'd say that new features released by these two products over the last 5 years really haven't impacted me.  As a result, I'm not really excited to pay $500 for updates that I gdoubt that I'll care about.

That said, two things that Eagle could really make $$ from me if they did it:

1. Integrated 3D CAD capability that easily exports to Solidworks.  But like I said in a post before, that never stopped me from doing something in Eagle that I could do in Altium - it just required more manual work on the Eagle side to get the 3D model of the PCB drawn up for mechanical integration.  I never did try the recent Eagle 3D add-ons.

2. Interactive shading and masking like Altium.

Then Eagle would have features more comparable to Altium, and the cost of Eagle might actually be justified.

[Anonymous]

there are a ton of things that _could_ be done for Eagle that would add some value, but i can't think of a single one that would warrant the excessive cost associated with this subscription model... it'd rather contribute to kicad with source code patches than pay for bureaucrats at autodesk...

[Anonymous]

Then Eagle would have features more comparable to Altium, and the cost of Eagle might actually be justified

Eagle is supposed to be a low-cost alternative to high price packages like Altium, otherwise just use Altium...now it has become neither low cost, nor a replacement for Altium.

  KICAD already offers, at a lower price(free):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KiCad#/media/File:KiCad_Pcbnew_Diff_Pairs.png

[MattStarfield-NextFab]

Based on the level of activity this thread is seeing, it looks like sliding this "New Licensing" announcement in on a Friday afternoon wasn't effective in letting it fly under the radar.

Kudos to all of you in the Eagle user community for making your voice heard!

[proj964]

So it's hard to say goodbye to an old friend; but...

new pricing - fail

subscription based - fail

activation technology - fail

version 7 will get turned off in the future - fail

cloud only is just around the corner - fail

so autodesk proves it is just one more greedy company in a world filled with similar predators.

-30-