BUG: Display Alias Missing

[C.Nicks]

It seems all of my display aliases have been deleted since the new layer pairs management has been implemented.

There are user layer presets listed in the new layer presets menu, but those are not the ones I had saved. Also the remove button does nothing for me.

I double checked my old eaglerc.usr backup and found the aliases I had saved. The latest eaglerc does not have them, so at some point the new version deleted them.

These are the names of my old settings and as you can see only 6 of them made it into the new dialog. Looks like before any upgrade everything needs backed up.

DocMeasRef, BotRoute, TopRoute, InRoute6, DOC, PDF, Route1, INT, topSilk, topStop, botStop, botSilk

[C.Nicks]

I tried removing the layer sets from the new menu, and now whenever I use Display it completely crashes.

On my machine, steps to replicate:

- Open board using 8.2.1

- Select DISPLAY

- Crash

I tried loading 8.2.0 and it worked fine. Then I tried again in 8.2.1 to see if that switched fixed something, but it is still crashing.

At this point 8.2.1 is completely unusable.

[rachaelATWH4]

---

@C.Nicks wrote:

I tried removing the layer sets from the new menu, and now whenever I use Display it completely crashes.

On my machine, steps to replicate:

- Open board using 8.2.1

- Select DISPLAY

- Crash

I tried loading 8.2.0 and it worked fine. Then I tried again in 8.2.1 to see if that switched fixed something, but it is still crashing.

At this point 8.2.1 is completely unusable.

---

So they forgot to write the code that checks the input file is valid and contains those lines before they try to read the info to populate that dialog.... Presumably if you added them back it would start working again? Do you have a copy to hand of what the default layer set lines contain? If not I can post it up so you can paste it back in if you need me to. Unfortunately it would seem you can't make changes stick with that file as it overwrites things when you use the new layer dialog....

[Anonymous]

yup, I crashed it by altering /lbr/ folder contents, it could not find files and bam! It's interesting because I don't know how to write software that crashes when it just can't load a file.

[C.Nicks]

@rachaelATWH4

Opening 8.2.0 adds the standard layer sets back into the eaglerc.usr.

Brd.CommandPopup.Display.1 = "Top Layers;none 1 17 18 19 20 21 23 25 27 39 41 44 45 51"
Brd.CommandPopup.Display.2 = "Bottom Layers;none 16 17 18 19 20 22 24 26 28 40 42 44 45 52"
Brd.CommandPopup.Display.3 = "Standard Layers;none 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 39 40 41 42 44 45 51 52"

That's why I hoped opening 8.2.0 would fix whatever got broken with 8.2.1, but it still crashes. Seems something happened deeper in.

I don't get why this new preset feature cannot do what was already implemented, and very stable.

It doesn't add any value and has created a number of bugs that have cost all of us more time than it has saved, including dev time that could've been spent on more important changes.

Also, why did they change the labels? "All" and "None" are self explanatory and don't need "Select" added to them. This really through me off because of my muscle memory.

And if they really want to make good changes to the display dialog, they should move all of the button controls to the top of the dialog.

Do you see how if you're used to hitting the None button, now you will hit the Remove button? That's how I managed to accidentally hit remove enough times to completely bring down 8.2.1, it was not on purpose.

Also the context menu for Display aliases is missing.

Want I want to know is who is deciding that these are the 'features' we need?

[edwin.robledo]

Hi C.Nicks,

I am really sorry you are experiencing this inconvenience with EAGLE, I will do my best to reproduce the problem and create a report around this. Can you please confirm what OS are you using.  I tried several time to force my Windows 7 to crash, but so far I haven't been able to.  I tested removing some of my custom alias definitions and it worked. I wonder if this is OS related. 

It shouldn't happen, seems that an earlier version of your eaglerc was loaded.

I actually really like this change to the Display Dialog box, when I have hosted boot-camps or online presentations people will mention they had no idea they could define aliases or accessing use history by right clicking some of the icons.  Having this ability directly on the display dialog box will take out some of the guess work. I

Please let me know your OS that way I can attempt to recreate it.

Best Regards,

Ed

[rachaelATWH4]

Hi Ed,

He's not removing the custom aliases, he removed all the default ones and that made it crash.

Best Regards,

Rachael

[C.Nicks]

Hi Ed,

Thanks for your reply.

My current work production setup is on Windows 8.1. The crash first happened after hitting remove multiple times. Beyond that I cannot help you replicate it as currently attempting to open the Display dialog crashes it. I may be able to dig out some info from the system logs if that would help.

I do understand that a lot of people do not notice that there are context-menus for things like display, grid, and window. Maybe there could be some work put into more hover-over help information instead of changing how the program operate.

If changes are to be made to parts of the interface, it has to be able to serve the same functions. This change removed the context menu, then replaced it with a change that broke the layers menu and does not serve the same functions.

Why wasn't the right-click menu items just copied over to the dialog?

Why as "Select" added to the buttons?

Why was the "Change" button removed?

Why are there unchangeable layer presets as well as User layer groups?

Why not work on things like intelligent toggle controls, or selectable layer focus features?

Like I said, if there are changes to be made in the layers dialog I would like to see the controls moved to the top of the dialog. That way when the size of the window changes, you still have all of the controls up at the top.

There are so many things that come to mind that would be way more helpful to us long time users who use it every day and will pay for the subscriptions. These newcomers that these 'features' are targeted toward are not likely to buy the subscription year over year. I have paid for every single update since 4.17 and now the new features break my workflow and make me return to old versions. I never had a time with Cadsoft where I was forced to use an old version because of stability. That is exactly why I was willing (and excited) to pay for every major update.

I am sorry if my tone is on the annoyed side, but it has been very frustrating trying to work at my normal pace with all of these problems. I understand the balance trying to be made with new features and long term roadmap, and I do appreciate all the hard work being put in by everyone.

Tell your higher ups, the more stable the releases, the more likely I am willing to continue my subscription. Do not cater to the new users who do this in their free time, or only create a board one board a year.

In order to keep Eagle paying for itself, you need long term users willing to buy it again and again. I have used Eagle almost everyday for 6 years, starting at version 4 and have put in hundreds of hours. I have learned the quarks and know the places that changes would help new users.

If you want to help new users to learn the program, work on refining what's there. Put some labels on the coordinate boxes.

Allow entering attributes from the properties. Delete all of the useless libraries and scripts. Build some nice clean libraries to show them how it should be done. How about a dark program theme to make it look fresh and modern? Touchscreen support? Adaptive grid? Auto place in the board? How about making it easier to setup and use the layer stack? Adding features to help users output bill of materials and documentation? See BOARD.lbr for some layer stack documentation examples. Ideally I would like a layer stack generator like drillegend.

These kind of things would go so far in helping new users to get boards in hand.

So many things that could help that seem to be ignored, while breaking our go-to tools for users not willing to put in the effort (or money) to learn.

Ok rant over, sorry if I have come across at all as disrespectful. I really do want to help, but I also want to do my part in making sure it doesn't become the next Altium (worst software ever).

If you want any more information on my ideas and how they would streamline the experience, feel free to get in touch.

Also check out my running notes on bugs and wishlist features HERE.

Best Regards,

Cameron

[Anonymous]

This is from a set of pictures elsewhere, it makes sense to make the layer selections additive.

So I thought: keep the original list, make subgroups, switchable on and off, and configure each.

Then, have several presets of these subgroups for easy switching of complete sets.

My most frequent tasks is switching the DRC and other shaded areas on and off, then the descriptors, names, values, etc. I needed to scroll and turn a bunch of them on or off. So, grouping those is an obvious solution, just add a checkmark.

[C.Nicks]

Personally I would rather have a layer management toolbar similar to Photoshop that you could keep active and visible. Also a design navigator like in Photoshop which gives you a broad overview of the design and a way to quickly move to sections. In the layers list n photoshop you can select layers and quickly group them. Then you can hide and show groups with ease.

[Anonymous]

that routing is a thing of beauty and I salute you 😉

My idea was floating windows, so that you could place these new specials (new_layerselect) and other new tools anywhere you'd like over your board. Left, right, top, bottom.

The design overview: VERY YES! I believe this also was floating in PaintShopPro.

Some people will avoid the stealing of screen space, some will welcome it, so we have to be flexible.

In the name of compatibility, the left bar could be in selectable in 4 versions: v7 style, v8 style (99% the same), NEWBAR (with added functions, etc.) and CUSTOM. There are some buttons I never click at.

[Anonymous]

The board overview: that is the place where HAND tool mode would become useful. You could drag the OVERVIEW window to schematics and watch it there as well.

FLASHLIGHT cursor modifier would light up anything the cursor moves over, on schematics and board as well. Upon dwelling, the INFO would get displayed in a tooltip 🙂

[C.Nicks]

Thank you ADresden for the compliment on routing. I am kind of OCD when it comes to routing, so I tend to do all of it 100% manual with focus on top notch reliability. Board layout is a form of functional art to me, not just a means to an end.

We put circuit boards in some really interesting places, and in really small form factors.

One of the most challenging designs I've routed recently included a 32bit ARM processor, EEPROM memory, accelerometer, high accuracy temperature circuit, active managed power nets, and a range boosted half watt transmitter (+27dBm) all stuffed onto a 2-sided 1inch round board. Over 60 components just in the RF section.

That is why I need manual routing control more than any kind of automatic helpers.

Here's a snip of it.

[C.Nicks]

Changing eagle to have all floating toolbars like Photoshop would be a major overall, but there are things that could get implemented onto what's already there.
Currently Eagle actually does support floating toolbars and the "Command texts" toolbar is a user defined toolbar.

Since there are some buttons you do not use on the main toolbar, you could build a full replacement into the Command texts toolbar. When you setup a "Menu" in the eagle.scr file, that is where it goes.

For tools that you want specific settings for, you could build those options into the menu items. You could even use your own icons.

I've been wanting to do a full replacement for a while, but haven't had enough time to get to it. I get tired of selecting the dimension tool and it not changing to the measures layer.

You seem to have a lot of ideas for Eagle enhancements.I know that a lot of them would require core modifications, but have you considered trying to make some of them happen with the environment and tools available?

Best Regards,

Cameron

[Anonymous]

I did not mean "all floating toolbars", but when developing a NEW function, like the layer select, let's make a NEW one, name it LAYERSELECT2017 or something, and make that one floating.

Then allow users to alter the left function panel, to customize the visible icons. Then you can use one or the other (or both!) to trigger the use of either the old layer select or the new floating layer select.

You haven't had time to make your own replacement toolbar, because it isn't configurable in GUI. Firefox did it nicely. Drag and drop. In configurator you drag and drop functions in and out. New bar created in a matter of seconds.

I consider all improvements should be independent of current function. And those which change function do so temporarily. Like the Group Modifier button. Like a CAPS LOCK. And Rachael wanted a "execute on group" function. That also is elementary need. (Change value and package on a selecter group is a daily MUST.)

I do not care how things will get programmed, I just want easy access to them. Possibly while sitting on my left hand.

[Anonymous]

Hear! Hear!

"I am kind of OCD when it comes to routing, so I tend to do all of it 100% manual with focus on top notch reliability. Board layout is a form of functional art to me, not just a means to an end.

We put circuit boards in some really interesting places...
...That is why I need manual routing control more than any kind of automatic helpers."

I completely identify with those statements!
Let Autodesk hear it and understand.

[rachaelATWH4]

---

@Anonymous wrote:

You haven't had time to make your own replacement toolbar, because it isn't configurable in GUI.

---

In case you hadn't found it, you can create your own custom buttons and pull down menus in the toolbar at the top where they've put things like DesignLink. It takes a little work but you can add all sorts and call ULP or other functions.

I think being able to as a minimum reorder the buttons in the standard toolbar so we can put things back in the locations they used to be would be very helpful. The shuffling around of the positions of several of them I find annoying when I am so used to where everything was in v7.

---

@Anonymous wrote:

Rachael wanted a "execute on group" function. That also is elementary need. (Change value and package on a selecter group is a daily MUST.)

---

I think a little ULP and a context menu entry could achieve your change value/package needs. The package can be done as a group already with the CHANGE PACKAGE command but the value I think needs ULP to work through everything in the group to change it with the VALUE command and while adding a ULP to do this it could be extended to make package changes on a group slightly faster.

---

@Anonymous wrote:

I do not care how things will get programmed, I just want easy access to them. Possibly while sitting on my left hand.

---

Can we add a caveat to that first part to say so long as it doesn't break existing workflows or introduce bugs/crashes?

Also, you'll und up with a dead hand if you sit on it that much 

I know you are not keen on using keyboard shortcuts to access things but sometimes it can make things a lot better 

[C.Nicks]

Hey Rachael,

There is a ulp for group value changes. It's cmd-change-value-group.ulp

See these are the kind of scripts that I think should get build into the program. So many useful ones buried in there.

[Anonymous]

😮
Yes, I'd like to have a context menu on right click. When I have selected 5 resistors, what are the most likely actions on right-click?
value, package, moving, orientation, component numbering, etc.

When the mix is of resistors and capacitors? package, moving, orientation, etc.

Someone needs to catalogue the ULPs and make a useful list, then suggest list to 'iconize'. And we can shamelessly name those functions somefunction1, somefunction2, somefunction3 to mark a version of it, so that nothing gets broken when new functions are added.

[jorge_garcia]

Hi Cameron,

Personally, I would like to have the option to arrange floating panels. The setup in your picture while nice, would make me uncomfortable. I don't like loosing that much screen real estate. I don't mess with the layer setups enough to justify having a permanent layer dialog docked on the right side.

I like the Navigator window I think that's cool. I think that if a few commands could have dockable dialogs then we could satisfy the various workflows users like to work with.