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Post 1 of 26
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A path forward for the Make license, a step up for Standard...

3436 Views, 25 Replies
01-22-2017 06:10 PM

Hi All --

 

We’re excited today to announce that the forthcoming release of EAGLE will have an expanded Standard Edition with more capabilities at a lower cost than ever before, and a change to network connectivity requirements for the Freeware version of EAGLE!

 

Firstly, the all-new Standard Edition will bump up the layer count to 4 signal layers (to enable those of you interested in building wireless, etc.) from the previous 2 layer limitation.  This gives users of the previous Make and Make Professional licenses a path forward, for only $100/year or $15/month!  What’s more, this is a commercial license, so unlike previous licenses, this is available for use in anything you might hope to take to market.

 

How does this compare to the $169 Make and $269 Make Pro licenses from Cadsoft?

 

Though the $169 Make license from Cadsoft was capable of 6 layers, this was distinctly non-commercial.  Thus this license could only be used for hobby projects and were you interested in commercializing your creation, you would be required to purchase a commercial equivalent.  

 

The $269 Make Pro license was a 4 layer, annual license and though it was a commercial license; the Make Pro license required it be renewed each year, under a subscription model.  If the product was not renewed, you would roll over to the Freeware license and layer restrictions would apply.

 

The not-so-Standard, “Standard” Edition

 

The Standard edition from Autodesk will now provide the equivalent capability of Cadsoft’s ‘Make Pro’ license, for more than 2.5x off the Cadsoft price.  Again, this is a commercial license which means you’re safe using this for your next crowdfunding campaign, or even business applications in the workplace.  

 

When will this be available?

 

Because we’ve moved away from big, monolithic releases with the move to subscription, you can buy the standard edition today and expect that within the next several weeks, the new capabilities will show up as an update in the software.  So just to be clear: if you purchase Standard today, you are guaranteed access to the additional layer count with the next release of EAGLE, scheduled just a few short weeks away!

 

Network Changes to the Freeware Version

 

As mentioned on the EAGLE user forums, the forthcoming release of EAGLE will include a small but welcome tweak for many of you to the network requirement which affects the Freeware software.  In the forthcoming release, a network connection will be required the first time you launch the freeware software.  Beyond this point, you are not required to maintain a network connection, except when updating the Freeware tools.  

 

Stated another way, you will only be required to login when you install the Freeware software, and each time you install a subsequent update / upgrade.  

 

How will paid licenses operate?

 

As discussed in myriad other threads, a paid license will require you login once every 14 days.  If you extend beyond 14 days, unlicensed, you can still open the software, produce output files, print, etc. however you won’t be able to modify the content of a multi-layer file without logging in first to retrieve either your Standard or Premium license entitlement.  

 

The software will automatically roll over to freeware and you will be able to use the free license however you will not be able to author new content beyond the scope of the freeware license without retrieving your license from the server.

 

Again, this all goes into effect in the next version which will be released in the next few weeks.  

 

We’re super excited about what these changes mean to the community and you can expect this release tempo to continue as we make the move from slow, monolithic release timelines, toward something of value coming regularly along the subscription path.

 

Best regards,

 

Matt Berggren - Autodesk

EAGLE, Tinkercad, Fusion

Have you tried via the autodesk.eu site ?

And yes it will direct you to the .com site but you'll proberbly be able to find it that way, I did (I'm in the EU)

 

Edit: Acctually I went in via the autodesk site from my contry, which redirected me to .eu, and then .com.

 

Haven't been able to see the logic behind this structure, and find it really weired...

As I said before; I sometimes refer to my designs to use as a reference, so being able to view them in 'freeware' mode is fine. BUT, I sometimes also want to add notes to the design for future changes. If the freeware model would allow me to add text (only) w/o a subscription license, I may be more inclined to go along with the subscription model (reluctantly).

 

Thanks, this is something we have planned.  We've definitely got markup as a part of the roadmap.  A few things we'd like to be able to do (and it's best we probably add this to another thread and unpack this more) would be to allow you measure, dimension (treating this different than measuring), add arrows, text, etc. to a design with any layer count or board area with the freeware version.  Doing this and being able to share as PDF or send to someone as SVG or other format would also be helpful.  Especially when communicating with clients and not wanting to necessarily give away the whole file (as you wait on payment), or likewise share with folks that dont really know EAGLE at all.  

 

Best regards,


Matt

 

 

nice, thanks.
no make edition available though.

Hi Boland1776,

In free mode you can still add text, you just can't change the copper outside of the work area.

Let me know if there's anything else I can do for you.

Best Regards,

Hi Bas,

 

You should be able to purchase this now!  If you have trouble using the .eu estore, let us know and we'll get someone to call you and get it sorted out.

 

Best regards,

 

Matt

Hi Matt,

 

Thanks for describing these new terms as a response to the feedback from the Eagle community over Wed's announcement. 

 

Can you tell me where to find these new terms listed anywhere other than this forum post? For example, are these new terms listed on an Eagle info page, Comparison page, or Subscription page?

 

The Eagle Standard "Subscribe" page still lists 2 signal layers: 

http://www.autodesk.com/products/eagle/subscribe

 

The Blog announcing the new Eagle subscription terms still lists "Standard" as 2 layers: 

http://www.autodesk.com/products/eagle/blog/the-new-eagle-subscription-has-landed/

 

Thanks for your help!

Thanks for the update!

 

The new standard license with the updated model might be accepted by most users. I would love to see Eurocard size covered as well in this license, eventual with less layers. Especially for Makers Eurocard (160x100mm) is of interest as they do their assembly by hand and have larger space requirements. PLS Think about it. More professional applications are done in SMD with less space requirements.

 

Personally I would prefer to have a standard license. Many companies offer both. Look at Microsoft the have boxed SW, available as well for download, with standard traditional licensing mechanism as well as Office365 which matches to the new AD model. So both at the same time would be possible.

-AH-

Hi Matt,

As a non-commercial licensee I'm really torn, because I really feel that AutoDesk is, in a way, abandoning me.  I feel I should also point out that as both non-commercial license user and a Mac user you are asking me to make a leap of faith into the subscription for Eagle today based on the promise that everything will be good in a few weeks.  An interesting proposition, but the thing is for my current design I need at least 4 layers now, so I will have to pass for the moment and see how this works out, counting the weeks as I go.  As a Mac user I'm already concerned because I see on your site that one of your long-standing programs, AudoCad, is still not compatible with Mac Sierra, 10.12.  One of the benefits touted for the subscription system is that the company can be more nimble in it's release schedule.  I hope, actually I will be counting on the fact that this will work out more favorably for Eagle on Mac OS, as I am planning on upgrading to a new machine with OS X 11.12 in the next few weeks.

 

I really think that I think you are underestimating that number of casual, non-commercial users such as myself in your user-base, people who are very dedicated Eagle users, just not everyday users.  And I will again state I feel as if your are all too willing to write us off.  Don't misunderstand, I know that Eagle has plenty of commercial users, I worked in a place that used Eagle. It's just that from where I sit the subscription pitch for the casual user is not strong.  This is coming from somebody who is actually considering becoming a premium subscriber,  However, note that the latter really hinges on if you can keep all (most???) of your promises in the few months while I finish up my current projects on version 7.

 

Richard Lane

Thank you for this.  We've discussed the space requirements and we'll continue to explore how we can create more value for the STD license.  I'll be sure and post about any changes here to the license and new features and we really DO listen to what feedback users are providing, so we'll include this input in our discussions of how we take EAGLE forward!

 

Best regards,

 

Matt

 

Matt,

 

thank you for the update. 4 layers is very welcome.

 

In my spare time I run a small audio module/pcb company - expataudio

I open my current version of eagle once or twice a quarter. My needs are as follows:

- up to 4 layer

- 6" x 4.5" maximum size (we're trying to make products that fit into this specification - http://www.barryrudolph.com/recall/manuals/api_vpr_%20500_spec.pdf) -- that's 172cm^3

- up to 10 or so schematic pages. First page is a block diagram page and documentation.

 

At $100 a year, I can live with not getting value from it every week/month, but I need it to stretch to that 6x4.5.

 

Also, the bit of the license that forces me to remove older versions is also BS guys... Software I already paid for should be mine to do with as I wish.

 

So, sort out the area to ~180cm^2 along with allowing me to keep my old versions, and you'll get me, and anyone making modern Pro Audio / Synth systems, onboard.

Add block diagram drawing tools (think visio style) and you'll have me a customer for life.

 

Thanks again for taking the time to read this feedback.

 

Cheers

 

Rochey

While they probably won't negotiate into that desired area,  nothing actually stops you from drawing a board outline according to the spec, and placing silkscreen / holes / vias / copper text outside of the area.   The only thing you can't place outside of the limited area, is components and nets.

 

This means given that you most likely want the card edge connector, you will have to put that on the bottom or left edge.  You will have to sacrifice either the top edge, or the right edge.   (Working area is 4.5inch by 5.5inch,  or 4.1inch by 6.0inch,  your pick,  in order to comply with 160 square cm).

 

Alternatively,  if you need the entire board area for components, you can do a one month premium subscription.   You will always be able to print / output gerbers for your designs with lower level subscription tiers,  once the design is complete.

I don't get how this is a "path forward" for the Maker license?  The new model requires me to pay more for less!  Your current plan is literally asking the people who make no money using your product to spend more, for less features!  Sorry, but I'm not dumb.  There's absolutely no incentive for me to "upgrade" to this subscription model or create new projects using my existing version of Eagle.

 

I'll be honest, I don't get the impression AutoDesk really thought this out very well.  6 months ago you told us this wasn't happening and then surprise!  And then less then a week after announcing this big change you tweak things because everyone is pissed off.  I definitely do not feel like a valued customer right now.  Maybe that's the intent?  Maybe AutoDesk plans to move Eagle upscale and leave the Maker's behind?  I dunno... it definitely feels that way though.  I like to think that this was just an honest mistake/over sight, but I'm not seeing any replies which gives me hope.

Marked your response as an answer to my question: Makers are not a target market for AutoDesk Eagle. Smiley Sad Thank you for the honesty.

Highlighted
Explorer bas
Post 2 of 26

Re: A path forward for the Make license, a step up for Standard...

01-23-2017 03:24 AM in reply to: matt.berggren

Hi Matt,

 

thank you for this update.

So when will i be able to purchase Eagle her in Iceland.
Since at the moment this product is not available in my country....

 

Kv,

Bas

Post 3 of 26

Re: A path forward for the Make license, a step up for Standard...

01-23-2017 07:36 AM in reply to: bas

Have you tried via the autodesk.eu site ?

And yes it will direct you to the .com site but you'll proberbly be able to find it that way, I did (I'm in the EU)

 

Edit: Acctually I went in via the autodesk site from my contry, which redirected me to .eu, and then .com.

 

Haven't been able to see the logic behind this structure, and find it really weired...

Post 4 of 26

Re: A path forward for the Make license, a step up for Standard...

01-23-2017 09:50 AM in reply to: matt.berggren

As I said before; I sometimes refer to my designs to use as a reference, so being able to view them in 'freeware' mode is fine. BUT, I sometimes also want to add notes to the design for future changes. If the freeware model would allow me to add text (only) w/o a subscription license, I may be more inclined to go along with the subscription model (reluctantly).

 

Post 5 of 26

Re: A path forward for the Make license, a step up for Standard...

01-23-2017 10:20 AM in reply to: Boland1776

Thanks, this is something we have planned.  We've definitely got markup as a part of the roadmap.  A few things we'd like to be able to do (and it's best we probably add this to another thread and unpack this more) would be to allow you measure, dimension (treating this different than measuring), add arrows, text, etc. to a design with any layer count or board area with the freeware version.  Doing this and being able to share as PDF or send to someone as SVG or other format would also be helpful.  Especially when communicating with clients and not wanting to necessarily give away the whole file (as you wait on payment), or likewise share with folks that dont really know EAGLE at all.  

 

Best regards,


Matt

 

 

Explorer bas
Post 6 of 26

Re: A path forward for the Make license, a step up for Standard...

01-23-2017 10:20 AM in reply to: niki.guldbrand

nice, thanks.
no make edition available though.

Post 7 of 26

Re: A path forward for the Make license, a step up for Standard...

01-23-2017 10:21 AM in reply to: Boland1776
Hi Boland1776,

In free mode you can still add text, you just can't change the copper outside of the work area.

Let me know if there's anything else I can do for you.

Best Regards,

Jorge Garcia
Product Support Specialist for EAGLE
Post 8 of 26

Re: A path forward for the Make license, a step up for Standard...

01-23-2017 10:25 AM in reply to: bas

Hi Bas,

 

You should be able to purchase this now!  If you have trouble using the .eu estore, let us know and we'll get someone to call you and get it sorted out.

 

Best regards,

 

Matt

Post 9 of 26

Re: A path forward for the Make license, a step up for Standard...

01-23-2017 11:25 AM in reply to: matt.berggren

Hi Matt,

 

Thanks for describing these new terms as a response to the feedback from the Eagle community over Wed's announcement. 

 

Can you tell me where to find these new terms listed anywhere other than this forum post? For example, are these new terms listed on an Eagle info page, Comparison page, or Subscription page?

 

The Eagle Standard "Subscribe" page still lists 2 signal layers: 

http://www.autodesk.com/products/eagle/subscribe

 

The Blog announcing the new Eagle subscription terms still lists "Standard" as 2 layers: 

http://www.autodesk.com/products/eagle/blog/the-new-eagle-subscription-has-landed/

 

Thanks for your help!

Post 10 of 26

Re: A path forward for the Make license, a step up for Standard...

01-23-2017 12:07 PM in reply to: matt.berggren

Thanks for the update!

 

The new standard license with the updated model might be accepted by most users. I would love to see Eurocard size covered as well in this license, eventual with less layers. Especially for Makers Eurocard (160x100mm) is of interest as they do their assembly by hand and have larger space requirements. PLS Think about it. More professional applications are done in SMD with less space requirements.

 

Personally I would prefer to have a standard license. Many companies offer both. Look at Microsoft the have boxed SW, available as well for download, with standard traditional licensing mechanism as well as Office365 which matches to the new AD model. So both at the same time would be possible.

-AH-

Post 11 of 26

Re: A path forward for the Make license, a step up for Standard...

01-23-2017 01:16 PM in reply to: matt.garfield
Hi Matt,

The websites will be updating in the next few weeks. Matt thought it would be faster for him to announce it here and then updates the sites with time.

Hope this helps.

Best Regards,

Jorge Garcia
Product Support Specialist for EAGLE
Post 12 of 26

Re: A path forward for the Make license, a step up for Standard...

01-23-2017 06:19 PM in reply to: matt.berggren

Hi Matt,

 

As a current Eagle 7.x Maker license holder, I just want to first thank you and AutoDesk for making the new Eagle Standard product more useful.  That said, you say:

 

"The Standard edition from Autodesk will now provide the equivalent capability of Cadsoft’s ‘Make Pro’ license, for more than 2.5x off the Cadsoft price."

 

That's great.  But I didn't have the Maker Pro, I just had Maker.  Let's see how things compare shall we?

 

$15/mo OR $100/year vs $169 one-time

4 layers vs 6 layers

 

Now Eagle 7 was released in July 2014... two and a half years ago.  So what's the total cost of ownership?

 

Eagle 8: 

2.5 years * 100/year = $250

30 months * 15/mo = $450

 

Eagle 7:

2.5 years w/ $169 on-time = $169

 

 

So the price just went up (dramatically if you're paying monthly), for fewer layers.  Of course, now it's a commercial license, but for Makers like myself who are doing non-commercial work, I can't say that I care.  

 

I should point out that AutoDesk Fusion360 (all the features, no arbitrary limits) is free for commercial use- as long as you're making under $100K/year which makes Eagle's new pricing look even worse.  That said, clearly I'm not morally against paying for software, but this doesn't seem to be a good deal in context to Eagle's past pricing model or other AutoDesk products.

 

Also, the current pricing model really hurts Makers like myself who use Eagle inconsistently.  Ie, I don't use Eagle every day, week or even month and I have no idea what my usage is going to look like for the next 12 months.  Should I go monthly because I don't expect to use it every month or do the yearly thing and lock in the cheaper rate?  The yearly rate is almost a 50% discount which is great for consistent users, but really punishes people who might only use it off and on.  You've just created a big ??? for me to answer right before you take my $$$.  And assuming I wanted to upgrade to Eagle 8 (which frankly, I see no reason to do at this point in time) I wouldn't know what to do... so maybe I do nothing?  That is after all the path of least resistance.

 

Post 13 of 26

Re: A path forward for the Make license, a step up for Standard...

01-23-2017 09:36 PM in reply to: matt.berggren

Hi Matt,

As a non-commercial licensee I'm really torn, because I really feel that AutoDesk is, in a way, abandoning me.  I feel I should also point out that as both non-commercial license user and a Mac user you are asking me to make a leap of faith into the subscription for Eagle today based on the promise that everything will be good in a few weeks.  An interesting proposition, but the thing is for my current design I need at least 4 layers now, so I will have to pass for the moment and see how this works out, counting the weeks as I go.  As a Mac user I'm already concerned because I see on your site that one of your long-standing programs, AudoCad, is still not compatible with Mac Sierra, 10.12.  One of the benefits touted for the subscription system is that the company can be more nimble in it's release schedule.  I hope, actually I will be counting on the fact that this will work out more favorably for Eagle on Mac OS, as I am planning on upgrading to a new machine with OS X 11.12 in the next few weeks.

 

I really think that I think you are underestimating that number of casual, non-commercial users such as myself in your user-base, people who are very dedicated Eagle users, just not everyday users.  And I will again state I feel as if your are all too willing to write us off.  Don't misunderstand, I know that Eagle has plenty of commercial users, I worked in a place that used Eagle. It's just that from where I sit the subscription pitch for the casual user is not strong.  This is coming from somebody who is actually considering becoming a premium subscriber,  However, note that the latter really hinges on if you can keep all (most???) of your promises in the few months while I finish up my current projects on version 7.

 

Richard Lane

Post 14 of 26

Re: A path forward for the Make license, a step up for Standard...

01-24-2017 09:44 AM in reply to: arnoldhuebsch

Thank you for this.  We've discussed the space requirements and we'll continue to explore how we can create more value for the STD license.  I'll be sure and post about any changes here to the license and new features and we really DO listen to what feedback users are providing, so we'll include this input in our discussions of how we take EAGLE forward!

 

Best regards,

 

Matt

Post 15 of 26

Re: A path forward for the Make license, a step up for Standard...

01-24-2017 12:56 PM in reply to: matt.berggren

 

Matt,

 

thank you for the update. 4 layers is very welcome.

 

In my spare time I run a small audio module/pcb company - expataudio

I open my current version of eagle once or twice a quarter. My needs are as follows:

- up to 4 layer

- 6" x 4.5" maximum size (we're trying to make products that fit into this specification - http://www.barryrudolph.com/recall/manuals/api_vpr_%20500_spec.pdf) -- that's 172cm^3

- up to 10 or so schematic pages. First page is a block diagram page and documentation.

 

At $100 a year, I can live with not getting value from it every week/month, but I need it to stretch to that 6x4.5.

 

Also, the bit of the license that forces me to remove older versions is also BS guys... Software I already paid for should be mine to do with as I wish.

 

So, sort out the area to ~180cm^2 along with allowing me to keep my old versions, and you'll get me, and anyone making modern Pro Audio / Synth systems, onboard.

Add block diagram drawing tools (think visio style) and you'll have me a customer for life.

 

Thanks again for taking the time to read this feedback.

 

Cheers

 

Rochey

Post 16 of 26

Re: A path forward for the Make license, a step up for Standard...

01-24-2017 05:55 PM in reply to: Rochey

While they probably won't negotiate into that desired area,  nothing actually stops you from drawing a board outline according to the spec, and placing silkscreen / holes / vias / copper text outside of the area.   The only thing you can't place outside of the limited area, is components and nets.

 

This means given that you most likely want the card edge connector, you will have to put that on the bottom or left edge.  You will have to sacrifice either the top edge, or the right edge.   (Working area is 4.5inch by 5.5inch,  or 4.1inch by 6.0inch,  your pick,  in order to comply with 160 square cm).

 

Alternatively,  if you need the entire board area for components, you can do a one month premium subscription.   You will always be able to print / output gerbers for your designs with lower level subscription tiers,  once the design is complete.

Post 17 of 26

Re: A path forward for the Make license, a step up for Standard...

01-26-2017 03:39 PM in reply to: matt.berggren

I don't get how this is a "path forward" for the Maker license?  The new model requires me to pay more for less!  Your current plan is literally asking the people who make no money using your product to spend more, for less features!  Sorry, but I'm not dumb.  There's absolutely no incentive for me to "upgrade" to this subscription model or create new projects using my existing version of Eagle.

 

I'll be honest, I don't get the impression AutoDesk really thought this out very well.  6 months ago you told us this wasn't happening and then surprise!  And then less then a week after announcing this big change you tweak things because everyone is pissed off.  I definitely do not feel like a valued customer right now.  Maybe that's the intent?  Maybe AutoDesk plans to move Eagle upscale and leave the Maker's behind?  I dunno... it definitely feels that way though.  I like to think that this was just an honest mistake/over sight, but I'm not seeing any replies which gives me hope.

Post 18 of 26

Re: A path forward for the Make license, a step up for Standard...

01-26-2017 04:48 PM in reply to: matt.berggren

I have used the free Eagle package intermittently, for  several years to view Arduino files and learn / relearn schematic and board design. Last fall I began a project which was slightly  larger in scope and more defined. I felt it was proper to purchase a maker license. I received the license on October 24, and began to use it. In November I noticed that my License Identified my version as a Student version (Same features no cost). I contacted my supplier and was assured that the licence was a maker license but due to forthcoming changes, Autodesk would not  resolve my issue until after the holiday. I came to  follow up with my distributor only to find they no longer represented Eagle (Autodesk's decision).

I now stand with a "Free" License to Eagle which I paid for and the company attempting to resolve the issue for  me is cut out of the loop.

I am often on the road or in remote locations for extended periods. having a software that requires internet connectivity to function even every 2 weeks means that the software would be rarely available to me.

As for the cost, since I paid full price for the maker version I ordered and the software was updated less than 10 weeks later I think U$15/mo is considerably cheaper than the CAN$100/mo I paid for  the free Student version I  received.

Post 19 of 26

Re: A path forward for the Make license, a step up for Standard...

01-26-2017 11:04 PM in reply to: synfinatic

Thanks for the reply.  It's unfortunate this license doesn't meet your req's.  We'd said we would always reserve the right to go to subscription and we've elected to do that now, sooner than you may have expected, as we build out the features of the new software that we've promised (design reuse, better routing, better hierarchy and net handling, better library editing, etc).  It sounds like the model doesn't work for you but of course you're welcome to continue using whatever license you already have and reevaluate that at a later date.

 

Best regards,


Matt Berggren

Director - Autodesk Fusion Electrical

Post 20 of 26

Re: A path forward for the Make license, a step up for Standard...

01-26-2017 11:18 PM in reply to: matt.berggren

Marked your response as an answer to my question: Makers are not a target market for AutoDesk Eagle. Smiley Sad Thank you for the honesty.

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